Help me Identify these Amazons!

[FantasyFeatheredFriends]

Needing some help with my amazons! I just purchased 2 "Panamanian Amazons" This was an online purchase from a breeder selling his breeding pair. When they arrived they were both extremely stressed and dehydrated with only pelleted food in the crate. They are supposed to be 8 and 9 years old. They ate a bowl of fresh apples and oranges and some sprouted seed and gobbled down the pellets i added. Within a few hours they started looking much better but I still have some concerns so they will be making a trip to the vet. I covered the nest box with some thin strips of wood instead of removing it completely to avoid stressing them further.

After getting them out of the crate and into their new habitat and studying them for a bit, I am having a hard time deciding if they are true Panama Amazons or perhaps they are Yellow Crowns. This is where I need help!

They are very much bonded, it took all of about 6 hours before they broke into the nest box, built their nest and commenced to "making babies"!

 

[Ladyhawk]

Those are not Panama Amazons; they are yellow crowns. Panamas usually have a lighter beak (except when they're babies) and are a different shade of green. The last time I checked they were a lot more expensive than yellow crowns, but that was a long time ago. Still, it looks like you've been cheated. Google "Panama Amazons" and then "yellow-crowned Amazons" and you will begin to see the difference, although it's tough when you're looking at babies. Yours have the typical yellow crown beak, so they're old enough to identify. If you keep them, you should find out whether you have a true pair. Someone who lied about what species this is will lie about what sex the birds are. I had that happen to me once.

Despite the fact you didn't receive Panama Amazons, you should know that yellow crowns are neat birds and these could use some TLC to get them back to good health.

I'd like more people to verify this, please. I don't want to be the sole person IDing these birds

 

[FantasyFeatheredFriends]

That is exactly what my thoughts were! Thank you for helping me clear this up!

 

[SailBoat]

Welcome to Parrot Forums! And also, the Amazon Forum!

Please remove the Breeding Box!!! This couple (!?!) is way to stressed to be Breeding.

The 'breeder' you got this pair from has been far less than honest regarding this couple, far less!!! They are in horrible condition and need months to recover.

While you are at the Avian Vet, please have them DNA Sexed! Please tell your CAV that this 'couple' have a very dubious history and that full spectrum testing would be responsible! NOTE: This Vet bill will likely be equal possible greater to what you already have invested!

Are you planning on mating this couple?

If you do not have a successful history of breeding Parrots, this would not be my recommended Parrot to start learning! Amazons are commonly demanding chicks that need extensive care. Also, Amazons are not commonly successful mating, laying and hatching chicks until they are in their mid-teens.

What kind of Amazon: Panama Amazons would not be my first guess! More likely Yellow Crowns.

I hope that you are not planning on breeding them and make tons of money, because the current market is not that strong.

 

[Ladyhawk]

Welcome to Parrot Forums! And also, the Amazon Forum!

Please remove the Breeding Box!!! This couple (!?!) is way to stressed to be Breeding.

The 'breeder' you got this pair from has been far less than honest regarding this couple, far less!!! They are in horrible condition and need months to recover.

While you are at the Avian Vet, please have them DNA Sexed! Please tell your CAV that this 'couple' have a very dubious history and that full spectrum testing would be responsible! NOTE: This Vet bill will likely be equal possible greater to what you already have invested!

Are you planning on mating this couple?

If you do not have a successful history of breeding Parrots, this would not be my recommended Parrot to start learning! Amazons are commonly demanding chicks that need extensive care. Also, Amazons are not commonly successful mating, laying and hatching chicks until they are in their mid-teens.

What kind of Amazon: Panama Amazons would not be my first guess! More likely Yellow Crowns.

I hope that you are not planning on breeding them and make tons of money, because the current market is not that strong.

Yes, what Sailboat said. ^^^ These poor creatures are in no state to raise a family. Even though you were swindled, I would not put them through a return trip to the breeder, either. Simply shipping them could kill them, especially if they aren't tame.

I recently had a bad experience with a pet supply store in New York. They advertised one product and sold another, which had me scrambling to create a suitable brooder for my baby blue front. My mother and I ended up having to watch the baby around the clock in order to assure she didn't overheat or chill.

The company advertised Flex Watt heat tape which I've used to heat snake enclosures. It's very potent, so much so one must use a thermostat to keep it from breaking glass, plastic, starting a fire, etc. I was assured it would heat a specified enclosure to the right temperature, but when I got the heat tape, I discovered it was barely even warm to the touch. It couldn't have heated a fish bowl. After some research, I discovered it was not Flex Watt heat tape, but a knockoff. This particular knock off was worthless.

An attorney friend of mine told me that in some states, you can get triple the damages if a product is not as advertised. Keep in mind that lawsuits suck. They're a lot of work, but taking down a con man is empowering and fulfilling, especially if precious lives are involved. Once I find the time, I very well may document my experience. If this store doesn't refund every cent, including shipping...well, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Your situation is worse. These birds are in terrible shape. They need someone to take care of them.

 

[Kiwibird]

Oh dear. These poor babies are in bad shape. Looks like they came from a bird mill or back yard breeding operation and have just been through the wringer. There is no way you should be allowing any "baby making" at this point, they need vet attention and to be nursed back to health before you even consider breeding them. Separating a bonded pair could be extremely stressful, but at least remove the nest box and limit access to anything that could be used as nesting materials. I hope you'll do the right thing and prevent attempts at breeding until they are healthier and fit to be raising chicks. Please keep us updated and let us know what the avian vet has to say.

 

[Ladyhawk]

Oh dear. These poor babies are in bad shape. Looks like they came from a bird mill or back yard breeding operation and have just been through the wringer. There is no way you should be allowing any "baby making" at this point, they need vet attention and to be nursed back to health before you even consider breeding them. Separating a bonded pair could be extremely stressful, but at least remove the nest box and limit access to anything that could be used as nesting materials. I hope you'll do the right thing and prevent attempts at breeding until they are healthier and fit to be raising chicks. Please keep us updated and let us know what the avian vet has to say.

Removing the nest box should be enough, especially considering the shape these poor animals are in. I had a pair of greys that kept laying clutches of infertile eggs. The hen was determined to nest, which was horrible for her health. I surmised the pair hadn't had a proper chance to bond with one another. I took the nest box off and the broody hen found love and better health. After six months, I put the nest box back up and they had their first fertile clutch.

 

[Ladyhawk]

If you do not have a successful history of breeding Parrots, this would not be my recommended Parrot to start learning! Amazons are commonly demanding chicks that need extensive care.

To give you an idea of just how extensive care of very young Amazons really is: I have one blue-fronted Amazon chick. I have exited my house just once since I got her on the 21st of May and if it weren't for a family member who agreed to help me with her (prior to acquiring her, mind you; we knew from experience how labor intensive this was going to be), I could not have done it at all. Even in my twenties and thirties I needed help to feed and socialize my chicks. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, bringing up baby parrots is a joint venture, especially if you expect to feed, wean, clean and socialize. It takes a tremendous amount of time and dedication.

 

[Ladyhawk]

Sorry to "spam," but one last thing.

If these parrots are terrified of humans, taking down the nest box will remove their "safe place." Wild parrots dive into nest boxes when humans show up.

If your pair is wild, try to set them up in a place where they can look out a window because what I describe next is going to be boring for them after they settle down. Take care there are no drafts and that the sun does not beat down on them. Next, add some non-threatening, safe toys in a spot down low on the cage and away from where they naturally perch. You don't want them terrified of new toys to the point where they are stressed. Next, put a curtain around them, leaving enough space at the top and bottom for air circulation.

Do NOT bother them unless you give a pre-arranged signal they will learn. I whistled for the wild birds I cared for. This would tell them I was coming and give them time to retreat to a safe spot. Your wild birds will relax if they know you only bother them after you give a particular whistle. That means you can do whatever you need to do in the room where they are without adding to stress levels.

Once they're settled in, you can rotate toys so they are not bored.

Apologies in advance if these birds aren't afraid of humans. If they're terrified, they may be wild-caught and older than you were told. What year did importing become illegal?

Another thing I thought of: What if this guy breeds yellow crowns and gave you a brother and sister? He's obviously a shady character. I just Googled this, so do some research to see if this is a reputable company. They have a test to determine relatedness in parrots: Avian DNA Relation Test - Avian fingerprinting

 

[FantasyFeatheredFriends]

A couple of things I would like to say.. First of all, thank you all very much for your concern of these poor guys. I am well aware of the condition of the birds and also what needs to be done to care for them and return them to full health! I have 11 Macaws (6 of which are rescues) (another 4 of which I am handfeeding), 6 White bellied Caiques, 4 Indian Ringnecks, an umbrella Cockatoo, a greencheek conure (pineapple) a parakeet in addition to the Amazons. Bonnie and Clyde are doing well, not terrified of anyone or anything and are recovering well. My avian vet does house calls which helps because I dont want to put these guys under any additional stress of moving them out of what I consider their safe place. All the health related posts are appreciated but what I really wanted to know are opinions of whether they are true Panama Amazons or are they Yellow Crowns. I am a very experienced breeder with several different species of birds and I know when they are in shape for breeding and when they need a break or to be removed from breeding completely. I care a great deal for all of my feathered friends. I rescue more birds than I breed, I rehab them, get them to trust people again and find appropriate loving homes for them. Nobody cares more about the birds under my care than me!

 

[Ladyhawk]

A couple of things I would like to say.. First of all, thank you all very much for your concern of these poor guys. I am well aware of the condition of the birds and also what needs to be done to care for them and return them to full health! I have 11 Macaws (6 of which are rescues) (another 4 of which I am handfeeding), 6 White bellied Caiques, 4 Indian Ringnecks, an umbrella Cockatoo, a greencheek conure (pineapple) a parakeet in addition to the Amazons. Bonnie and Clyde are doing well, not terrified of anyone or anything and are recovering well. My avian vet does house calls which helps because I dont want to put these guys under any additional stress of moving them out of what I consider their safe place. All the health related posts are appreciated but what I really wanted to know are opinions of whether they are true Panama Amazons or are they Yellow Crowns. I am a very experienced breeder with several different species of birds and I know when they are in shape for breeding and when they need a break or to be removed from breeding completely. I care a great deal for all of my feathered friends. I rescue more birds than I breed, I rehab them, get them to trust people again and find appropriate loving homes for them. Nobody cares more about the birds under my care than me!

Sorry to inundate you with posts. We share because we care. They sound like they're in good hands. And yes, I agree with your assessment that these are yellow crowns and not Panamas.

 

[FantasyFeatheredFriends]

No worries! That is why I am here! Doesn't matter how long you have been doing something, another set of eyes looking is always a good thing!