Head bobbing and squawking

[Oldbirdlady]

Hello!

I’ve been searching parrot questions non-stop for almost a month now and always end up here! So I figured it was time to join you lovely folk! Im thankful for the community.

I have had one budgie since the beginning of the year, recently started housing a Moluccan cockatoo (who I am hoping works out to adopt!), and JUST adopted a Nanday Conure. The Conure is actually why I am posting.

Since I am fairly new to birds, I really don’t know what’s normal! My 12 week old Nanday is as sweet as could be, BUT Tiki (I think that’s the name we are going with) has some quirks I am concerned about. Every time we hold Tiki her head bobs, she squawks, and flinches her body the ENTIRE time. She/he clearly likes everything we are doing (she closes her eyes starts to drift off, will lean into it, come to us if we move away, etc) but she won’t stop bobbing, squawking, and flinching. She also does this a good portion of when we aren’t holding her.Also her balance is terrible! And she backs up off of things all the time. Like she will be balanced on our hand and then just start backing up and fall off. Also when we got her she did have some slight discharge around her nose. It was clear and there was hardly any so even though I was worried I thought it might be okay. That has cleared up now. I was also worried because she was poofy BUT I’ve never seen her not poofy. As in..I don’t think she’s poofed up. Just that maybe her baby feathers are still coming in and so she is still baby poofy? Lastly she is warm. I heard that healthy birds are cool but she always feels pretty warm. All that being said, everyone just keeps saying she’s a baby and that’s why for all this stuff. That it’s normal. I just wanted to ask you guys...is this normal?

She eats a lot (although she aims for the softer sweeter foods and picks those out leaving the hard foods), her poop is normal, she naps a lot but also she plays, talking a lot, and she seems alert. All those things make us think she’s fine? But I feel like there may be some warning signs.

Any who! Sorry for the long post. Thank you all again for the community and your time! Please let me know what you think!

- Sky


P.S. We don’t mind the squawking! I know conures are loud. After the Moluccan any noise is quieter than her. I’m just worried that Tiki May be uncomfortable. Also we plan on taking her to the vet but it was hard to get a soon appointment, so I am wondering how big an emergency this is or isn’t.

 

[SilverSage]

You need to get to an AVIAN CERTIFIED VET RIGHT NOW!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sunnyclover]

She needs a vet like now...in fact like yesterday. Spunds like she isn't eating enough and takes a long time to eat which is why you think she is eating a lot. She is hungry...that's why she is squawking like that, sounds like she's begging for food with every ounce of her being. This is exactly the behavior my Nanday Conure showed when I got him and after many many vet visits and me having to hand feed him myself he has still not fully recovered. He has many issues that have not resolved it has been found he had malnutrition from being force weaned and that lead to neurological issues. Please get your baby to a vet ASAP as she is likely starving to death slowly.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Here is my thread from back then: http://www.parrotforums.com/questions-answers/72872-baby-nanday-younger-than-i-thought.html

 

[Oldbirdlady]

She needs a vet like now...in fact like yesterday. Spunds like she isn't eating enough and takes a long time to eat which is why you think she is eating a lot. She is hungry...that's why she is squawking like that, sounds like she's begging for food with every ounce of her being. This is exactly the behavior my Nanday Conure showed when I got him and after many many vet visits and me having to hand feed him myself he has still not fully recovered. He has many issues that have not resolved it has been found he had malnutrition from being force weaned and that lead to neurological issues. Please get your baby to a vet ASAP as she is likely starving to death slowly.

Oh no! That's exactly what I was afraid of!!! I knew I should have listened to my gut! I just thought other people knew better than me because I have never had a baby. Thank you guys for your help. I hope I'm not too late! I'm sorry to hear about your Nanday. How long have you had him now? What are the neurological issues? (If you don't mind me asking).

 

[Sunnyclover]

I've had him 5 or so months and the neurological issues are not something I can explain very easily but let me just say it's like day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute he can go from happily preening be and me petting him to acting like he's terrified of me and biting me in defense or being aggressive very suddenly and then immediately going back to wanting to be held and get head scratches in the span of 5 minutes with no warning signs AT ALL. No cause and effect and has so far not been able to be trained anything he didn't already know as a baby. He knew step up when I got him and I potty trained him the1st day I had him and those 2 things stuck but other than that he seems to not remember anything despite months and hours a day off attempts. This does not mean you bird will end up like this but it can happen. Please get help as soon as you possibly can.

 

[Oldbirdlady]

I've had him 5 or so months and the neurological issues are not something I can explain very easily but let me just say it's like day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute he can go from happily preening be and me petting him to acting like he's terrified of me and biting me in defense or being aggressive very suddenly and then immediately going back to wanting to be held and get head scratches in the span of 5 minutes with no warning signs AT ALL. No cause and effect and has so far not been able to be trained anything he didn't already know as a baby. He knew step up when I got him and I potty trained him the1st day I had him and those 2 things stuck but other than that he seems to not remember anything despite months and hours a day off attempts. This does not mean you bird will end up like this but it can happen. Please get help as soon as you possibly can.

Oh dear. Well, thank you for the information. I hope Finley improves! But I am glad to hear he is doing better than the beginning! Watching your youtube videos was encouraging. I also hope my Tiki improves. We are so heartbroken. We are getting her help now. You were totally right. She was starving! I think something got seriously messed up with her weaning process. I'm mad at myself for not seeing it all instantly. Once I have more information I will post an update. Thank you again!

 

[Sunnyclover]

Okay good luck! I want to know how it turns out.

 

[EllenD]

I hope you can find a very experienced, good, Certified Avian Vet asap...

Out of curiosity, where did you get her? From a breeder or a pet shop? And did you get a "hatch-certificate" with her that states her age? Is she banded?

The reason I'm asking is that hopefully it's not neurological, but rather that she never fully weaned...which is unfortunately not uncommon at all...Breeders and pet shops both are often very unscrupulous and they do often lie about age to save money and make a larger profit...Sometimes they think the baby is close-enough to weaned, as in they are eating some solid food, so they think they'll get-away with lying about age...

A CAV will be better able to tell you if that's the case, but if she was in-fact starving and that was the issue, my best guess is that she was either "Force-Weaned" instead of being properly "Abundance-Weaned", or she's not actually 12 weeks old at all, or both...OR she never fully-weaned at all in the first place...

 

[Sunnyclover]

EllenD. I was just saying that my vet thinks that the lack of food at Finley's age caused his neurological problems not that her bird has them. I was saying in my posts that I think her bird was force weaned (as you said) and is loosing balance and begging for food because it's starving. Just wanted to clear that up. Not all birds who act like this will have other issues, just that it can cause larger problems sometimes like in my case.

 

[wrench13]

Welcome and be welcomed. Notice that allae telling you to make sure the vet is a CERTIFIED AVIAN VET.
Not a regular cat and dog vet. Parrots are a very specific field of study- hard to diagnose and hard to treat. In the futureremember - parrots are prey animals and hide illness and disease really well so they do not stick out in the flock as easy marks. The least bit of change or new sysmtoms should be red flag to see your CAV. That nasal discharge? SHould have triggered a visit becasue by the time it comes to that the bird may have been sick for awhile. And bird illnesses rarely get better all by themselves.

Hope your baby is getting treatment and starts to feel better. Hint - keep a log or journal of all daily foods- water intake- changes in behaviour and dr visits. It helps keep track of everything.

 

[EllenD]

EllenD. I was just saying that my vet thinks that the lack of food at Finley's age caused his neurological problems not that her bird has them. I was saying in my posts that I think her bird was force weaned (as you said) and is loosing balance and begging for food because it's starving. Just wanted to clear that up. Not all birds who act like this will have other issues, just that it can cause larger problems sometimes like in my case.

Sunny, I know, I apologize,I didn't meant to imply that I didn't read your post... I was just reinforcing what you said, and just trying to tell the OP that it's not necessarily a "neurological issue" with her bird, as I wasn't sure if they grasped what you meant by that...

Just to reinforce what Sunny is saying, as a long-time breeder who also grew-up in a house with a mother and grandmother who also bred parrots and game-birds/poultry, I can tell you first-hand that "Force-Weaning" causes more psychological/behavioral issues in young baby birds than anything else...And it's not only that these babies are "Forced-Weaned", it's that they really aren't fully-weaned at all, even though their breeders may think that they are, or on the shady-side of breeding there are many breeders who could care less and are well-aware that the babies aren't fully weaned, but they sell them anyway...it's shameful.

On a positive note, I can say that I've seen more than a few babies/young birds who were obviously either Forced-Weaned or just sold as being fully-weaned when they weren't at all, who were able to be fully-helped and turned-around, usually by actually starting-over the weaning-process from the beginning, and properly treating the bird like an unweaned baby, which tends to help the psychological issues. The pet shop in my hometown was opened when I was 13, by a husband who bred reptiles and a wife who bred birds, and she used to take-in baby birds who were bred by people who got in over their heads and couldn't properly feed and/or get the baby to wean. And that's what Lori would do, she would start completely over with the babies, who were often close to 20 weeks old (a lot of Conures and many, many, many Cockatiels)...She just started hand-feeding them formula 4-5 times a day, then went from there, just like you do when you initially pull a 2-3 week old chick...That's what they need, they need to be "raised" like a baby bird by their mamma...

It's such a shame when this happens, it's totally unfair to the bird and to it's new owner/parront, but in most cases it's able to be corrected...

The other thing I wanted to point out to the OP is that your baby needs to see a Certified Avian Vet (not an "exotics" vet or general vet, but an Avian Specialist only) for his first "Wellness Exam" anyway, and you might want to talk to them about doing some fecal cultures/sensitivities as well, because what you have to keep in-mind is that if this bird's breeder hand-raised/weaned him so poorly, either accidentally because they don't know what they are doing or purposely because they're greedy and don't care about their birds at all, either way it's very likely that they don't Vet their breeders, obviously not their babies before they sell them, and their cleanliness/sterilization habits are also probably very poor, or just non-existent...I've seen some horrible, horrible, awful, disgusting, sinful bird-breeding situations and they are breeding grounds for sick birds with both fungal and bacterial infections, among other things...

A test for PBFD is also a good idea in this situation...

 

[EllenD]

And just to make a big deal to the OP of how great a point Wrench made, you must ALWAYS, ALWAYS take your birds to a Certified Avian Vet (only!) immediately whenever you notice ANY CHANGE in their behavior, eating habits, sleeping habits, or physical health...It's always better safe than sorry with birds, as Wrench said, they are ALL hard-wired with an innate-survival instinct to completely hide ALL outward signs and symptoms of illness, injury, pain, and suffering...and they are GOOOD at it! They somehow actually manage to hide physical signs/symptoms of illnesses, and by the time you noticed a nasal discharge from your baby's nostrils, whether clear or not, doesn't matter at all, he could have had an Upper Respiratory Infection for months already at that point...So the point is that by the time we as humans notice any little, tiny change in our birds behavior, routines, physical appearance, etc., it's often already too late to save them and they die at the vet's office...and once again, NO "EXOTICS" VETS OR GENERAL VETS!!! Especially with a young, baby bird with a serious behavioral issue, no Exotics Vet who simply "sees birds" along with reptiles, rodents, dogs, cats, etc. or general vet will be able to help him one bit, and they often just make it worse...

****Case-in-point to the OP: The best example of this that I have EVER SEEN was not long ago in this forum. It happened to a long-time, senior member with tons of parrot experience. She had noticed for a couple of weeks that her Amazon had been "picking-at' or "itching" his vent area off and on. No other signs of illness, pain, etc. Her 'Zon was eating normally, playing and behaving normally, not another symptom except for a random "itching" of his vent. And his vent had no signs of infection, no wounds, no missing feathers, no lumps, it wasn't even red (she post photos of her bird's vent area for us to see in-case we could see something that she didn't...none of us saw a thing)...She had already made an appointment with her CAV for the following week, just in case, as she is well-aware of their ability to hide illness and injury until it's much too late to save permanent damage or death, but she just wanted our opinions...I myself as well as others were guessing that he either had an exterior issue, such as a feather-cyst, or simply dry skin, or possibly a bacterial or fungal infection in his GI Tract...but this was such an infrequent little itching thing that he was doing from time to time that no one, including her, thought much of it...After her appointment with her CAV, WHO WAS EXPERIENCED AND EDUCATED ENOUGH TO RUN NOT ONLY FECAL CULTURES AND BLOOD WORK, BUT ALSO DID A PLAIN-FILM X-RAY, ALL ON THE FIRST VISIT, she posted the horrible news...Her Amazon had a horribly-advanced Kidney/Renal System infection, and he had been suffering from this infection for such a long time that his kidney was so enlarged that it had actually been pushing on his spinal column and caused degeneration of the spine/discs in the area that the kidney had been pushing on!!! That's how long this bird had been suffering from a severe Kidney infection (which probably started as a simple urinary tract/renal tract infection before it spread to his kidney)...we're talking months and months and months, long enough for his kidney to swell to many times it's normal size and cause spinal degeneration due to pressure...And the only outward sign/symptom that this bird exhibited was a totally innocent, infrequent itching of his vent area!!!

It must be stated that the ONLY REASON THAT HER AMAZON IS ALIVE TODAY IS BECAUSE SHE TOOK HIM TO A VERY EXPERIENCED, CERTIFIED AVIAN VET!!! There is absolutely no way in hell that ANY "Exotics" Vet would have EVER taken an x-ray or done blood work on the first visit when the owner's only reason for bringing the bird into the vet in the first place was an infrequent itching of his vent area...I don't even think that a Exotics Vet or non-Avian Specialist would have run a Fecal-Culture (and even if they had, the Fecal Culture may not have shown any abnormal bacteria/fungi at all anyway, and even if it had, there's no way that the vet would have had any idea at all that the Renal system and Kidney were at all involved)...An Exotics Vet or non-Avian specialist would have simply either done a physical exam, weighed the bird, heard about the itching of the vent, looked at the vent area, maybe taken a fecal culture, probably not, but it wouldn't have mattered either way, and most-likely would have sent the bird home with Baytril (Enrofloxacin) without having a clue what was wrong, or if anything was wrong...And in another couple of weeks her bird would have developed a Septic Infection and most-likely died...I gave her CAV mad-props, it absolutely blew me away that they made the diagnosis that they did...it seems terrible that most vets fail to run ANY diagnostic tests at all on the first visit with a sick bird, regardless of the bird's symptoms, they just guess that they have a bacterial infection that Baytril will treat. That's not an exaggeration either...That CAV that saved this bird's life is a special vet, priceless actually...

So that's the difference between taking your birds to the vet upon the first, little, tiny, insignificant sign or symptom that you notice..and not. It's also the difference between taking your birds to a much experienced, educated, Certified Avian Specialist Vet, EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DRIVE HOURS ONE-WAY TO GET TO ONE, and just settling for the nearest Exotics Vet who is simply "willing to see birds" but has no extra education or training in any particular species of animal or birds at all.

 

[Scott]

Welcome to the forums, glad you joined! As others have posted, Tiki needs a qualified and experienced avian vet. Fortunately you live in the L.A. area and will have many to choose.

Basic Google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=cer...ome..69i57.11631j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

More specialized search engine: https://www.aav.org/search/

Good luck to you and Tiki, please update us as you are able!