green wing sick

[maxred]

my 20 yr old green wing macaw ingested some medical marijuana last night. it was the edible candy form, i guess known as THC. i have no idea how much she ingested, but she became symptomatic within about an hour.

it has now been about 20 hrs since this occurred. she is unable to maintain balance on a perch and lays down with her wings out to help her stay upright. her heart rate and breathing are suppressed. her pupils are dilated. she does keep her eyes open and acts like she is trying to rest.

we tried calling avian vets, most of whom are closed. even the emergency ones want you to bring your animal in and won't spend any time with you on the phone.

if she survives this Sunday night, we may have more chances to contact local avian vets. i don't feel that the stress of driving her to the closest avian vet 4 hours away is the best approach. if a vet with expertise in treating macaws that ingested THC said there was some treatment or anecdote, we would consider even a long drive to take her in.

we did try with a local emergency animal hospital who had no idea what to do and told us to take her home and keep her comfortable which is what we were already doing.

 

[plumsmum2005]

my 20 yr old green wing macaw ingested some medical marijuana last night. it was the edible candy form, i guess known as THC. i have no idea how much she ingested, but she became symptomatic within about an hour.

it has now been about 20 hrs since this occurred. she is unable to maintain balance on a perch and lays down with her wings out to help her stay upright. her heart rate and breathing are suppressed. her pupils are dilated. she does keep her eyes open and acts like she is trying to rest.

we tried calling avian vets, most of whom are closed. even the emergency ones want you to bring your animal in and won't spend any time with you on the phone.

if she survives this Sunday night, we may have more chances to contact local avian vets. i don't feel that the stress of driving her to the closest avian vet 4 hours away is the best approach. if a vet with expertise in treating macaws that ingested THC said there was some treatment or anecdote, we would consider even a long drive to take her in.

we did try with a local emergency animal hospital who had no idea what to do and told us to take her home and keep her comfortable which is what we were already doing.

That is how it works, what did you want them to say over the phone? " Do not worry your bird will be fine?" If this happened to a child of yours would you do the same thing? No you would seek medical assistance! Incredible?

If you had taken her they could have monitored her and administered anything that she needed. Hopefully eased her distress because that is how she sounds.
They could also have given her fluids. Without doing some tests on her to check her out how would they know what to give? Sorry there isnt another pill to undo this coc$up!

I cannot believe how lax you are and even more disbelieving that you let your precious GW get to this stuff. Do the right thing and take her to a registered and certified Avian Veterinarian straight away please!

Oh one more thing please rehome her if she recovers from this?

 

[SailBoat]

To my outsider information, Medical Marijuana, whether purchased in an edible candy form or other forms is provided in specific amounts /dosages. In addition, one consumes said 'medication' at a prescribed rate, Correct? After all you are using it for Medical Reasons, Correct?

Your GW consumed a volume in which you should have some idea of the amount. That amount and its dosage per piece should provide some idea as to what level support is needed. Your total lack of that critical information places Medical support in a serious position.

Most Vet Offices open their emergency /tech access doors at 7:00 am, some earlier with Doctors arriving between that time and just before officially opening for appointments. I would recommend that you be there when those doors open. In addition, I would recommend that you bring your 'candy' (!?!) Medical Marijuana with you.

What support you should have kept in mind is that 'all' Pet Medical facilities have that you do not is BLOOD TESTING, Breathing Support Equipment and Emergency Medications. Which is far more than you could provide.

I realize that much of what I have stated is Hard Hearted! But what you failed to do (Control, Controlled Medication) has lead to this. Yes, I know you are Now well aware of your errors. In some States, this is classified as Animal Abuse.

May God's Blessing be upon your MAC and that your MAC survives!

 

[Kentuckienne]

How is she doing? I would be surprised if the drug was fatal...but it would be good to flush it out of the system. Will she drink anything? Something like Pedialyte, is that the name, a pediatric electrolyte drink, which is sweet and salty so it appeals to the taste. That might help move stuff through the body. THC is fat-soluble, so perhaps some coconut oil or other tasty oil on bread might absorb the drug and be passed out if the gut that way. Keep an eye on her, especially if respiration seems to be down, body temperature might drop so make sure she's warm and comfortable.

Please do come back and update this thread for the benefit of someone who might have this same problem in the future...accidents happen, and we can't go back in time to un-happen them. You did the right thing in searching, reaching out, and taking the advice of the emergency vet to keep her comfortable. It would be a very good idea to take her to an avian vet as soon as possible, take advantage of the time and get a full set of blood tests done while you're there to make sure there isn't any other sleeper problem. Good luck to both of you...

 

[Scott]

As medical marijuana is beyond the scope of proven bird therapies, you ought treat this as ingestion of a pharmaceutical. This means any feasible trek to an emergency avian clinic is warranted. The symptoms described *may* imply further degradation is possible. It is now early Monday, and I hope you've lined up a visit with an avian vet! It is possible your macaw may have recovered by now, but there are endless uncertainties warranting a thorough vet check. Please reassess your vigilance with meds and understand we are deeply concerned for your majestic green wing!

 

[itzjbean]

All others have given great advice here, I hope your greenwing is okay!!

 

[maxred]

she is getting better. now can hold her head up and drank some fluid. i did speak with an avian vet late last night who offered advice, but was not able to see her then which was midnight. she will come to our house today since she believes this is best for birds.

as for some of the negative comments, they are in bad taste. the medical MJ is MD prescribed to help ease terminal cancer pain. it is impossible to know how much she ingested. even if the concentration were known, since the volume is unknown, concentration in her body is impossible to determine. the MJ is kept within a cabinet. as smart as she is, getting in to it is not much of challenge. believe me, this is the last thing i want to happen.

i have raised her since she was 6 weeks old and she is a constant companion. i love her like a child. mean spirited remarks are not appreciated. once something like this happens, you only seek advice on dealing with it, not criticism for letting it happen.

 

[wrench13]

The folk on this board only have your parrots best interests at heart, and some can get a little carried away, but its not to be spiteful. THis is a new one for all of us, and the way the problem was presented may have checked a few boxes off for some. Medical MJ is a relatively new therapy so I am pretty sure no Avian vet will be familiar with what it might do to a parrot. I am glad that your baby is starting to feel better and am really impressed your vet is making a house call, because yes, boxing a parrot up for a vet visit is stressful for most. So please let us know the outcome and maybe stick around for awhile, we have some really nice people on here, and then there is me!

 

[plumsmum2005]

Thank you for coming back and and the reassurance that she is loved. There are crack pots out there who want and for all I know give their pets this just for the hell of it. There are also twits who like to just wind us up.

I am so relieved she is a little better, can you imagine how scary that would have been for her. It is important that she eats something even just a little and often.

Sorry also for your medical diagnosis. Perhaps a suggestion of putting any drugs in a lidded container in a cupboard. We all know how clever parrots are. Please continue to update us how she is, we all care and hope that you will consider being a regular on here.

 

[Scott]

My sincere empathies with the person prescribed the MJ. While legally hotly contested, it is a proven palliative for the horrendous effects of cancer. I wish you or your companion comfort and peace.

Thankfully your macaw is improving and a home vet-check will address whatever is necessary to expedite recovery. No doubt this has happened to others and perhaps medical literature offers guidance best given post examination.

We strive to refrain from judgmental reactions, but outlier events yield extreme concern! A recent thread discusses "flyover" posts and emergencies where help is sought but little or no feedback is received. So I thank you for the update and hope you understand our motives are driven by concern for your green wing!

A belated welcome to the forums, enjoy your stay.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I hope she's ok. I can see how it would be very disorienting for a bird to be high - probably her balance is off, she might feel dizzy, or just tired, and there's no way to explain to her what's going on. Maybe she just knows something is wrong and she has to hide it do the flock doesn't abandon the sick bird. So even when the effects are worn off, the psychological stress might continue. Fortunately parrots have short memories and once she's better she may quickly forget.

 

[Kiwibird]

I am glad she is feeling better. Accidents do happen and these intelligent creatures sometimes get too curious for their own good. I would be concerned with the other ingredients in the edible more than the THC and CBD (was there chocolate, artificial sweeteners, preservatives etc...)? She was likely just really, really stoned and had no capacity to understand what was happening to her. Fortunately, marijuana is far far safer than some of the other pain killers given for palliative care. Would hate to hear of a bird who got into opiates.

I live where recreational marijuana is legal. Plenty of stories floating around about accidental ingestions by children or pets in the edible forms (candies, various baked goods, even drinks). Never heard of marijuana killing a human or animal. Making them feel terrible and even vomit? Yes, but not fatal to any living being I've ever heard of. Edibles have massively high concentrations and delayed reactions meaning she could have consumed a sizable quantity for her size (basically until she was full) and felt no effects until some time later. Might not be a bad idea to get a small safe or locked box to store it in from now on along with any other medications to keep curious beaks out. You can find decent safes/lock boxes that would serve the purpose of keeping a parrot out of medicinal supplies for well under $100. This incident is a good reminder for everyone that medications or any potentially intoxicating or toxic substance should always be kept under close wraps when a parrot is around.

 

[DerTier]

can't believe the INCREDIBLE amount of judgemental comments because the person uses cannabis. It is none of your business how or what they are consuming, only that their parrot needs help for ingesting a likely toxic substance. If nobody had accidents with toxic ingredients the need to educate about it wouldnt be filling up a good part of this forum.

If you dont know medically what can help dont comment unless you can be nice. Shocking from members who I've seen so far to be really understanding of other people's mishaps...

Hope your bird is doing ok, much love from me and Nibbler <3

Edibles are very limited actually in the amounts and concentrations that can be sold for recreational use. However, any amount of THC will have massively different effects on animals than on us, especially such tiny light animals such as birds. This means that you could have something in your house that wouldn't have an effect on a human and it would really mess up your dog or cat.

Other than digesting the compounds in cannabis differently than humans, the other huge issue with them getting into cannabis products is that many are exposed to a LOT of unregulated insecticides and other pesticides. These are causing humans to become sick, an animal would really suffer.

Pet companies are starting to jump on the medical aspects of cannabis, so it is not usually toxic in the normal sense, but obviously the doses would have to be very small comparatively.

As a side note, Poison Control exists for parents who have children who ingest suspicious substances, and if they are calling, they obviously care. This service charges a large fee these days, and wouldn't be able to exist or charge a fee if nobody ever had an accident. All it takes is one time, and NOBODY is perfect 100%.

 

[SailBoat]

I'm sorry, but I must have missed when the "can't believe the INCREDIBLE amount of judgemental comments because the person uses cannabis" occurred! Maybe, I sped read over that part. Or, is it just as possible that an 'over sensitivity' on the reader's part is as likely. The two sides to every story thing.

I live in a State that allows for the Medical use of cannabis and I have two extended family members who have the 'medical' documentation to use it. With great interest, one has great control over that and the other medications prescribed. Can with clarity provide the amount on-hand of any medication used and controls their availability (as recommended above) by using a lock box. The other had recently had the children removed from the home when the seven year old arrived at school 'stoned.'

The extensive volume of dangerous medications that are available in most homes today is of great concern. It is the responsibility of the Adult(s) to greatly limit their availability.

I do not judge whether cannabis is or is not being used for a true Medical reason! That is between the individual and their doctor! I do judge when medication is not safely controlled. Specific to this Thread, the OP did a good job of controlling the location of Medication, but mis-judged capability of the Parrot. That is an accident! Not knowing the volume, that is a different question.

Please take great care in general statements regarding cannabis use for pets, and especially Parrots. Depending on the form and 'volume' in which it is provided, it can kill from suffocation.

Cannabis has a long history with its medical uses with and for Humans. That said, it's use within the Avian World is very limited and like the vast majority of other medications, its source use in founded in Human use.

 

[DerTier]

I cannot believe how lax you are and even more disbelieving that you let your precious GW get to this stuff. Do the right thing and take her to a registered and certified Avian Veterinarian straight away please!

Oh one more thing please rehome her if she recovers from this?

To my outsider information, Medical Marijuana, whether purchased in an edible candy form or other forms is provided in specific amounts /dosages. In addition, one consumes said 'medication' at a prescribed rate, Correct? After all you are using it for Medical Reasons, Correct?

I realize that much of what I have stated is Hard Hearted! But what you failed to do (Control, Controlled Medication) has lead to this. Yes, I know you are Now well aware of your errors. In some States, this is classified as Animal Abuse.

Not going to bring this up again after this, but maybe you didnt realize how you were sounding. Also, all comments were written with great care, and in context. I personally do not think the pet medication industry has done enough research and is jumping on the bandwagon early...but to each their own on what medications they feel are safe for pets.

"Specific to this Thread, the OP did a good job of controlling the location of Medication, but mis-judged capability of the Parrot. That is an accident!"

This is a big turn around from your comments about animal abuse, so I'm glad you at least revised your opinion of what an accident is...

 

[DerTier]

just cant help but wonder if you would attack somebody who accidentally left out an ibprofen or a piece of avocado in the same way...

 

[maxred]

Red (my greenwing) has now fully recovered. the avian vet who had labs run, said there were no signs of organ damage. the liver is a concern and her enzymes were normal. it seems that many of the same tests and indicators used for humans are also used for birds. the difficulty is interpreting the numeric results since the ranges are not well documented.

i have taken precautions to ensure that she cannot access any toxic drugs in the house. i have learned that even child proof containers are not beyond her capabilities. i should have know when years ago she learned to remove tightened nuts from bolts. she knows to turn them counterclockwise which is something that to this day my wife has never mastered.

 

[DerTier]

Thats fantastic! Glad to hear it. I would have assumed child proof containers would be enough! Yikes! Glad i have a small bird who doesnt get himself into trouble

It would be great if you could teach her to say "righty tighty" while she undid the bolts!

Happy endings are the best.

 

[Inger]

can't believe the INCREDIBLE amount of judgemental comments because the person uses cannabis.

(SNIP)

As a side note, Poison Control exists for parents who have children who ingest suspicious substances, and if they are calling, they obviously care. This service charges a large fee these days, and wouldn't be able to exist or charge a fee if nobody ever had an accident. All it takes is one time, and NOBODY is perfect 100%.

First, you seem far more concerned about the perceived judgment than the OP. Why so defensive?

Second, Poison Control is free. 30 seconds of Google research would have clarified that for you. There is a PET poison control that charges you $59.95 per incident (10 more seconds on Google). Be careful with misstatements like this in a post that appears to be full of facts. A cautious reader would now call into question everything you've said.

Very glad to hear the parrot has come through and sounds like OP will be tightening up security on the medicine cabinet, so it's a win.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chris-md]

Dertier, I believe there may be some misunderstood sensitivities. My eclectus got ahold of an excedrine tablet (Tylenol and aspirin), and I posted about it here. I got similar treatment, and I recognized it as people being helpful. What you are seeing as judgemental is simply methodical breakdown of the situation. Sailboat makes an excellent point about knowing the exact amount of the potentially harmful substance (in my case the tablet had 80mg, only 4mg can be toxic). He's clarifying that because it is prescribed, there should actually be a verifiable, quantifiable amount to work with.

I've posted here long enough to know people aren't judging in the way you think they are. Please take everything here in the spirit it is given: urgent reality check designed to do everything we can to help. The participants here are all heart in worrying about the best interest in these oft-misunderstood creatures.