Grand vs. Solomon Island (Male)

[EclectusDude]

Good evening. I'm new to the forums, but not to birds. I've previously owned conures and have raised them from young hatchlings (including syringe feeding).

My wife and I are looking to bring an Eclectus into our family and have decided that a male Eclectus is what we're after (love the green color and their relaxed attitude).

We've come across someone selling a 6 month old Grand Eclectus, but had initially been looking into SI Ekkie's. What are your thoughts on Grand's and what are the differences?

I've read/been told conflicting info (Grands are bigger than SI, SI are bigger than Grands, etc.), so looking to get a general consensus from the group.

Additionally, is 6 months a good age to get an Eclectus? The conures we've raised in the past were all a few weeks of age when we got them.

The breeder is a reputable source, too.

Thanks!

 

[SailBoat]

I am a strong believer in letting the Parrot choose you!

When we want, we fail to consider whether that Parrot wants us. Changing your stance from self-centered to other-centered and you will find that they do in fact want too choose and they are much better at it than we.

 

[EclectusDude]

I am a strong believer in letting the Parrot choose you!

When we want, we fail to consider whether that Parrot wants us. Changing your stance from self-centered to other-centered and you will find that they do in fact want too choose and they are much better at it than we.

Ummm....ok, thanks for the philosophical approach. :34:

Anyone have any comments to the question I posted about differences between Grands and SI's?

 

[SailBoat]

I am a strong believer in letting the Parrot choose you!

When we want, we fail to consider whether that Parrot wants us. Changing your stance from self-centered to other-centered and you will find that they do in fact want too choose and they are much better at it than we.

Ummm....ok, thanks for the philosophical approach. :34:

Anyone have any comments to the question I posted about differences between Grands and SI's?

Yup, philosophical approach - let me recommend that you go to the Amazon Forum and Read 'in detail' the second Thread, Titled: I Love Amazons - ... and after reading it with detail and length, you will be in a much better position to define my approach as philosophical.

FYI: I did not take your question lightly, I would suggest you not take my recommendation lightly either.

 

[EclectusDude]

Ok, still waiting for feedback on the question I asked in the OP

 

[psychocircus91]

The differences are minimal enough to simply base your decision on an individual, rather than a species/sub-species, as mentioned.

 

[Kiwibird]

I think you will find most people will echo Sailboats sentiments. Most of the time, comparing the differences within a species of parrots is like asking the difference between a blonde and brunette human. Physical differences exist, and you may even have a personal preference about those physical characteristics (and thats certainly ok!) but overall temperament of the species still applies to the overwhelming majority of individuals and much of the behavioral differences simply comes down to the individual, how that individual was raised etc...

If you are set on getting a baby bird, the best time to get the baby is after it is fully weaned and no longer needs any hand feedings. As long as the baby is eating solid foods on it's own, then it would be fine to bring it home. No reputable breeder should be selling unweaned babies. Even better if the breeder has let the baby fledge ands not clipped them as well, though it is pretty common practice for breeders to clip babies as soon as they can fly. If I'm not mistaken, 6 months would be old enough for a baby ekkie to be weaned and eating on it's own, but you should check with the breeder to be sure!

Personally though, I am of the mind it is better to adopt a mature adult, even better if the mature adult likes you. Why? Because they've been through puberty and you know what their adult personality is like, or that if you invest a lot of effort into training them they won't be going through a major change of life a few years down the line that will potentially erase all your hard work with them. Juveniles can really do a 180 at puberty behavior wise (which for an ekkie sized parrot would start around 4-6 year old) and morph into a bird you barely recognize.

 

[Terry57]

From what I've read, SI are a tad bit smaller than Grands. I was wondering if you had seen this thread? There is a lot of good info in here about Eclectus:
http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/52737-so-you-think-you-want-eclectus.html

 

[davefv92c]

i would say the SI,s are smaller. Max is an SI and
by looking at most of the pics on here he is smaller then most
i have seen pictured on here 6months is time to be weaned, Max took 24 weeks
on the weaning before he was ready to come home.
have fun they are a blast.

 

[chris-md]

As was said, the differences between these two are nominal at best, to the point I wouldn’t worry about the subspecies at all. One might e OH SO SLIGHTLY bigger than the other but you really wouldn’t notice if you weren’t paying attention. Go by individual and availability.

 

[itzjbean]

I'm no help with the Grand or SI issue.

As for the 'let the bird choose you' situation... it would be great if you could meet the bird beforehand but its not always possible. Location is difficult for me....some day I want a macaw, but there are not many macaw breeders in Iowa where I live, so when I do finally make the plunge to get a baby, (without large bird experience I don't think I'll be able to rescue), I may have to meet the bird when I pick it up. Hopefully I can find a breeder within a few hours from me to visit once or twice but all in all, I don't think you necessarily have to 'click' with the bird and let it choose you before bringing it home.

 

[LordTriggs]

from what I was told by an acquaintance of mine with a SI Ekkie in the states there's almost no difference between them except for about an inch or so in size and that the SI is more common

Definitely go see a couple, even if you just see a few from one clutch. There'll be one hopefully out of the lot who will want to come say hello and decide you are now their friend and provider of food

 

[davefv92c]

my Amazon picked me, i had 2 quakers in the nursery and went in to pick up Max and as we where clipping his wings Lily flew over to see what was happening and watched from my shoulder. well after getting Max home i gave it some thought and exchanged the quakers along with more cash and took Lily home. im in Columbus ,Oh and there is a big aviary here and they do large parrots even bread the Hyacinth's there it is a ways from you but a very good aviary.Iowa cool i will be moving back to Council Bluffs next year and just can't wait to get back there, so tired of the over crowded city.

I'm no help with the Grand or SI issue.

As for the 'let the bird choose you' situation... it would be great if you could meet the bird beforehand but its not always possible. Location is difficult for me....some day I want a macaw, but there are not many macaw breeders in Iowa where I live, so when I do finally make the plunge to get a baby, (without large bird experience I don't think I'll be able to rescue), I may have to meet the bird when I pick it up. Hopefully I can find a breeder within a few hours from me to visit once or twice but all in all, I don't think you necessarily have to 'click' with the bird and let it choose you before bringing it home.

 

[EclectusDude]

Thank you everyone for your feedback on the differences (or shall I say not really) between the SI's and Grand's.

I won't be purchasing any Ekkie without meeting them first and seeing how we fit together. I plan on bringing the whole family out to check out the bird and see how we all mesh together. If it's meant to be it'll all work out.

From what I've been told, finding a Grand is rare in comparison to finding an SI. Personally I'm not after a bird because it's "rare" or "limited edition", but I am after one that wants us just as much as we want him.

One of the breeders I called in Southern California yesterday mentioned that he no longer breeds Ekkie's because they all pluck themselves in the future. I find that hard to believe and think it's obviously a sign that they're stressed. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I don't think that'll be the case here, as my wife stays at home every day and we plan on having the Ekkie out of his cage all day except for when we would leave or when it's bed time.

Thank you for all your inputs so far!

 

[itzjbean]

One of the breeders I called in Southern California yesterday mentioned that he no longer breeds Ekkie's because they all pluck themselves in the future. I find that hard to believe and think it's obviously a sign that they're stressed. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I don't think that'll be the case here, as my wife stays at home every day and we plan on having the Ekkie out of his cage all day except for when we would leave or when it's bed time.

Thank you for all your inputs so far!

I find what the breeder told you as very odd. I see many Eclectus being bred all over the US and, yeah, they are prone to plucking but with proper diet and fulfilled lives they end up just fine. Any Ekkie owners want to share their thoughts on this?? I would run, not walk away from this breeder. Sounds like something is up...

 

[Kiwibird]

One of the breeders I called in Southern California yesterday mentioned that he no longer breeds Ekkie's because they all pluck themselves in the future. I find that hard to believe and think it's obviously a sign that they're stressed. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I don't think that'll be the case here, as my wife stays at home every day and we plan on having the Ekkie out of his cage all day except for when we would leave or when it's bed time.

Thank you for all your inputs so far!

Plenty of healthy and fully feathered ekkies on this forum!

From my understanding, eclectus are very diet sensitive birds and even the most minor slip ups in feeding can cause all kinds of health issues, plucking being a big one. Many people buy a parrot and want to feed it a simple, commercial pour some 'kibble' in a bowl twice a day diet like you would a dog or cat without the hassle of fresh foods. For some species, quality pellets are ok as a dietary staple, but not for eclectus. That seems to be the root of many ekkie pluckers- improper diet (often due to the owner simply not knowing better). In your preparations, it would probably be wise to consult an avian vet about an appropriate diet for an eclectus and make sure it is something you'll be able to always provide. If I'm not mistaken, they cannot eat some brands of pellets and need a higher proportion of fruit and veg than other species. I also think they are more prone to food allergies, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[davefv92c]

get ya a copy of this good read ton's of info and
also good to have a round for a reference

 

[Anansi]

April (Kiwibird) hit the nail right on the head. Very often, the plucking issues in eclectus parrots spring from an improper diet. Unfortunately, many people (even quite a few veterinarians!) are under the mistaken impression that eclectus parrots have dietary needs identical to those of most other parrots. But the differences are such that it was believed until only recently that eclectus only lived 20 or so years. The truth is closer to between 50 and 70. Why the discrepancy? Because an ekkie consistently fed the wrong kind of diet will suffer a significantly shortened lifespan.

Another contributor to eclectus plucking is their rather high intelligence. So, like African Greys, they need a lot of mental stimulation and can be particularly affected by boredom. (Every parrot needs a lot of mental stimulation, but some are more likely to fall into self-destructive patterns than others.)

But all that said, ekkies are most certainly not pre-destined to be pluckers down the road. But feed them a diet of seeds or the wrong kinds of seeds and you'll be skewing the probability in that direction. So that breeder should probably look to the diet he was providing.

As to your original question, I concur that grands tend to be larger than SI's... though not by much. I think you were also hoping for a comparison of general personality traits, but unfortunately I've never met a grand in person and, as such, have no basis for answering that aspect of your question.

Looking forward to seeing what ekkie you ultimately choose. Good on you for asking your questions beforehand. Make sure to check out that link that Terry57 posted in her response. Good stuff, there.

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

I will also agree with April that a lot of issues with plucking in ekkies can stem from an improper diet. When the rescue I got Tiki from first got him, he was primarily eating colored pellets and his chest and back were plucked almost completely bare.

Six months later he was fully feathered again, although he will always look slightly haggard from some permanent damage in places caused by the plucking. He still wasn't on a proper diet for an ekkie, but he had been changed from colored pellets to dye free pellets. That was literally all it took to stop his plucking. That is just one example of how sensitive they are to not only different foods but additives as well.

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[coopedup]

personalities are unique in each bird---some males are more outgoing, curious, snuggly, vocal.....quiet, reserved, laid back....than others. You dont get to chose the personality. That being said, Eclectus in general are known to be fairly consistant across the subspecies, Im pretty sure you wouldnt be able to tell one from the other based on personality alone. 6 months is an ideal time to get a baby. Most reputable breeders wont let them go before 16 weeks...and they usually still need a comfort feeding once or twice a day for a short while after that. I know of one breeder who wont release their babies until 6-7 months so you are right in the sweet spot for a baby at that age.

I know a few Grands but i had to ask...the males in particular are very difficult to tell the 4 subspecies apart and unless they're all side by side it would not be easy to tell. I dont know them well enough to be able to say much about their personalities, and one is female. SI's and Vos seem to be the more popular subspecies in the US. At a guess, the reason for this is because of availablility of breeder stock. Ekkies are several decades behind other birds in terms of breeding programs, due primarily to the misconception that the greens and reds were different species. Once they figured out that they were sexually dimorphic, breeders needed buyers----and since no one knew what an eclectus was, it has taken quite a while for the demand to build. Without demand, there is no reason to breed...and no incentive to bring in different subspecies. Grand isnt "rare" its just not as common in the US. Vos are popular largely due to the coloring in the female. When you see a Vos female, you know its a Vos. There is also a lot of cross breeding between the subspecies. Probably not intentional unless an unscrupulous breeder just paired up the first birds he could find. Unless you get your bird from a breeder who has an extensive history breeding ekkies (not just breeding birds) you may end up with a mixed bird. Many of the newer breeders have no real documentation of their breeding stock origins..and have to take at face value what they are told when they acquire a bird. IE: if I were to breed Wrangler....i'd either be guessing that he's a Vos male, or possibly a Grand....even though he's banded we simply dont know what he is--he's a rescue, and a plucker.

As to your plucking issue...yes, a lot of ekkies are pluckers...so are greys, and cockatoos. Improper diet is part of it, boredom is part of it, emotional insecurity is also a factor. Different birds pluck for different reasons, but not all birds of an entire (sub) species pluck. It's ridiculous to claim that. When i got Wrangler he was missing almost all of his body feathers except for some down, all of his tail, and a big chunk of wing feathers. Over time he's managed to grow most of them back, though when he gets upset he shows it by dumping a few dozen feathers onto his cage floor. The big difference is that he leaves his primaries alone and his feather-fest, as i call it, only lasts for a few days. I can live with this. Im not happy about it, but he's made great strides in so many other areas that this is a minor issue in the scheme of things. Wing flipping and toe tapping are another issue entirely. These are usually (stressing USUALLY) diet related. It is stressful for the bird to have these involuntary spasms, and in the long term it can affect their overall health. Underlying medical conditions can also cause flipping/tapping--they are a symptom of something else so if you see it present, dont ignore it.

Probably one of the biggest differences between smaller birds and Eclectus is their emotional need to be with family. Being home doesnt mean your bird isnt bored/lonely. My husband is home a lot when Im working but he's upstairs in his office and doesnt interact with Wrangler for the better part of the day. Today I got home from work and found a box of T-pins all over the carpet and a few things knocked over. Clearly he'd left his cage (he's rarely locked in) and wandered through the dining room and living room to find some entertainment of his choosing. This all occurred while my husband was home (the wind also threw the patio umbrella into the yard and he didnt notice that either). Your bird is part of the family and needs to be included...not pulled out every now and then when you decide you want to play with him. Like a dog that has to be taken out several times a day for natures call and exercise...a bird of this genre is a daily commitment with needs for love and interaction to be emotionally healthy. I take Wrangler with me to run errands if I've been working a lot. He loves the car rides and the experience of going to new places. It satisfies both his need to have "mom-time" and stimulate his curiousity. He also goes along for the evening dog walk---same reason. He can self entertain, but it's MY responsibility to make sure he's emotionally happy, especially considering his background prior to being rehomed. My neighbor has a love bird and some finches. She talks to them and interacts with them, but it's limited---and they dont care if she's around or not. The entire block knows when I leave for work...Wranglers "flock call" looking for me is hard to miss. Side note here...he's finally settled in to the point that I dont get flock call nearly as much any more. He's more comfortable with the house and understands that I will come back--but it took over a year to get to that point with him.

we are here to help...we care about our birds and want new owners to be as well prepared as possible. Snarking about lack of responses will only alienate one of your best resources. This forum has been an incredible resource for me over the last 18 months--and much more on point that the "forum of public opinion" aka facebook. Not all of us are on the site daily, or even weekly---so cool your jets, be polite, be gracious, and be patient. Your bird will thank you for it.