From cute to obnoxious....

[LoveMyConlan]

So I apparently have a bad habit of turning my birds into babied cuddlebugs....

My 1 year old B & G is the cuddlebug of the world, but he's gone from it being cute to it being obnoxious.

He is very respectful of pressure, understands the word No(though on occasion will ignore me for which he gets a time out) and loves being around people. He's a total sweetheart. Loves scratches, rolling over on his back to play, give kisses, and snuggle up in a lap.

However.... All he wants to do is sit on my lap and get neck scratches. If I move more than a few feet away he has a fit. Toys are no interest outside the cage. And he pretty much has to be touching me at all times. At first I thought it was that he was nervous, but usually after some play with my hands, he'll snuggle into my lap and fall asleep.

I figured it was just a baby thing. He loves to sit on my lap, tilt his head back, and do a baby wing flip as he gets kisses and scratches. I thought he'd grow out of it, but nope.

I've tried toys, food, music, enrichment games.... But as soon as he's out of the cage and I walk away from him? He has a total fit. He'll fly after me and scream. Even if he's sitting with my mother he'll have a fit. And he's most definitely not food motivated, but love is his key.

He's target training great! He's learned to wave and spin!

I LOVE that he's sitting on me and feels so loving with me.

But, let us be honest, since his baby mouthiness has already ruined some electronic devices, the only 'acceptable and safe' thing we can do together is watch a movie ROFL.

Id like to get him to play on his own, enjoy his outside time exploring and being a baby.... He has a humongous play stand to play on, but won't.

I don't want to punish him for being a sweetheart but I want him to learn he doesn't have to be touching me to have fun.

What can I do to maybe encourage some independent behavior? Is this actually baby behavior or have I just babied him to much? Or is this just his over loving personality?

 

[SailBoat]

You have done a wonderful job of teaching your MAC how to train you and now you find yourself trapped in a web of you're own making.

So, now you need to undo what you have done so very well!

This is not your Parrot's fault, you have taught this! So, your MAC is not being obnoxious, only doing as you have taught.

The process is to teach away time and other people time that you will need to start with first going to setting down and requesting your MAC to stay! Each time gets a bit longer and you work from there!

Enjoy!

Remember:
It is NEVER the fault of the Parrot!
It is ALWAYS the fault of the Human!

 

[LordTriggs]

Oh what I would give for a parrot "baby" haha!! Sounds very similar to one of my old cats, she was attached to me like this to the point she began following me to work.

I'd just work on less time on your lap and re-direct his attention even if it means you lose out on the things you like to do, a bit of play time is always a good way to keep the interest going. then maybe once playtime is done and he gets a bit sleepy then instead of going onto your lap you pick him up, give a little cuddle then back in the cage so he can calm down and relax. You're still right there but he knows it's time to calm down

 

[wrench13]

Sit next to his play Stand and put him on it. Play with a toy with him to show him how much fun they are. Only let him play with the toy while he is on his play Stand.

 

[itzjbean]

I'm hoping Birdman will chime in here with some advice on this. It sounds like an over-bonding issue to me, which I hear is common with macs, and basically you have to teach them at a young age how to be content playing by themselves on a play stand. It won't be an overnight fix, will take time and patience to break him of this behavior but if you stick to your guns, you can certainly come away with a more independent mac.

 

[LoveMyConlan]

It's weird because if he's in his cage, he'll yell for a moment when I first get home or get up. Once he quiets down, I'll go in and say hello.

If I have things going on that I can't 'babysit' him and he has to stay in the cage, he's totally fine after a moment of 'Where are you going?'. But other than that he's really not a noise box. He's content to play with his toys and look out his window. Granted when I walk past his room he'll go to his 'come out' perch, but really no yelling or fits.

He likes to be a clown and and from his beak showing 'No hands mom!', and he'll laugh a creepy laugh, dance, or go 'blah blah blah'.

But for the most part, in the cage, he's fine being left alone and keeping himself entertained.

But as soon as he's out? He's my lap warmer.

It's crazy that he's a fast learner, loves being held upside down like a baby, goes out on the town with me, and he's great.

Even when we go out and he has on his harness, I can have him to my mother or friend and he steps r right up, happy for the attention! They can carry him with no fuss.

But moment I walk away, he screams like a banshee ROFL.

I guess I never really noticed it much in detail until the other day I was making homemade pumpkin cheesecake (no bake) and couldn't get much done because he wouldn't stay on the couch with my mother... I wasn't even 20 feet away...

He understands time outs very well. For the most part I can just say 'do you want a time out?' And give him 'the look' and he stops.

But I don't want to punish him. Like Sailboat said... I made this mess.

I'm honestly also terrified how this will play out once his 'demon hormones' show up. Heaven only knows how that will go.

 

[LoveMyConlan]

And as far as ideas and time? I'll try anything and time is of no matter.

I'd rather transition him into more independent behavior slowly and quietly, than just flip his world upside down :/

 

[itzjbean]

I feel your frustration on this. When you have to go somewhere or do something else for a minute, could you put him back into his cage with the door open? or would he just fly out to get to you? He seems to be comfortable in his cage, maybe being out in the open worries him and going back to his known place he sleeps would help him become more independent. Just an idea, that maybe starting putting him inside his cage and doing what you have to do, then return and pick him back up may help. You could try and see if it works.

 

[LoveMyConlan]

If his door is open he'll climb out and down onto the floor to come find me. He's clipped so he can only get a about a foot of glide time.

The only lock I have had at all was placing him on the back of the couch to look out the window. He navigates the couches, which are shaped like an L, and gets up and off off them by himself. If he's in the window I'm usually pulling him out of the curtains ROFL.

He will just roam around the house looking for me. I walked away to use the bathroom the other night while he sat on the couch eating with my mother... He got down to the floor, yelling, and went searching back the hall until he heard me in the bathroom yelling to mom.

Next thing I know here he comes in the door and right onto my lap ROFL. I placed him on the floor, washed my hands and walked out ignoring him. He followed me back to the living room and climbed up the cushions and onto my lap.

Little beast

 

[LordTriggs]

sounds like my mum's dogs!

Can't go anywhere without them following. Not so bad with 1 little westie-cross but now she has one of the largest German shepherds you've ever seen and another shepherd who's about the size of a fox right now. All follow her at all times and will all get as close as possible. Maybe she needs to keep an eye on this thread to figure out how to stop them!

 

[Birdman666]

You have to pattern them. Structure the interaction. Set a routine.

You set the tone from an early age.

This is wake up time. This is feeding time. This is your cage time. This is your outside time. This is when you have to play on your own. This is your lap time. This is time for bed...

You raise a macaw the same way you raise a human toddler. Structured interaction, boundary setting, discipline, and nurturing guidance. (By discipline I mean, they have to understand the boundaries and abide by them. No means NO! Discipline does not mean hitting... Sad I have to say that, but some folks interpret these things the wrong way.)

MACAWS ARE BIG MUSHY LAP BIRDS AT HEART... AND THEY ARE "PAIR BOND" BIRDS. (NOT FLOCK BIRDS.) In the wild, they form practically inseparable bonds with their mate, they mate for life, and they don't stray far from one another. In captivity, they transfer these natural behaviors to a human...

Not as a mating thing (unless you do things that confuse them) but as a companionship thing.

THEY DON'T GROW OUT OF IT!!! THIS IS THEIR TRUE NATURE. THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE...

 

[Jottlebot]

Once I've stopped feeling sick with jealousy (!)... I can understand your issue. My bird is tiny compared to yours and was parent reared, so isn't cuddly, but I do remember the cold dawning of realisation of exactly what is meant by "a lot of time and attention". I'd read it time and time again and had thought carefully about my life and how I would be able to provide for a bird. I though about money, time, cleaning, toys, health, diet, lifestyle, attention, size, personality, what I wanted to try and achieve in my life, holidays, even my own lifespan! I was, however entirely unprepared for exactly what "attention" means to a parrot!

Not all the time, but the majority of it McCoy requires at least 90% of my attention. When he's out of his cage and sometimes when he's in it. He'll throw himself across his cage to be near me and if he doesn't fly to me when he's out he'll watch me and if I even glance in his direction he'll fly to me! It is exhausting. I had thought I could watch telly and just have him out and about with me, but it's just not that easy! And I'm mindful that McCoy is pretty independent. He will happily play alone and chew his toys inside and outside his cage.

I would suggest you need to make time with you less rewarding. It may be however, that just being with you is enough reward, which makes things tougher. I'd use treats, food and eye-contact/attention rather than physical contact if that makes sense. Put him on or help him explore his play stand and be interested and playful and give him food rewards when he's on it.

You could try and find very rewarding toys (McCoy LOVES anything rope and wobbly) to tempt him off you. Forage toys maybe? If he isn't food motivated you could think about making other changes e.g. if you feed him all day have feeding times where he has access to food so there are parts of the day when he is hungry, this might improve the effectiveness of treats. The idea would be that you lengthen the time he is not on you between treats.

It seems he decides when he is on you. Could you work on a command and place him somewhere else when he climbs on you without the command? McCoy sometimes flies to me whenever he wants, but this is reducing, I think it's because he would generally land on my head, which I didn't like so I ignored him. He can also bite so I wouldn't put my hands up where I couldn't see him so he didn't get to be picked up to come into my eye-line. Basically it's boring, he doesn't get food and I don't look at him.

I have my own thoughts about wing-clipping for no medical reason, but I can see how this might make this situation harder if he just flew to you. It could give him something else to think about though other than you?

It's not easy, but I'm impressed you're not just so flattered by his attention that you don't want to do anything about it. I think I might be tempted! In the long run though helping him to be independent will be better for him. Good luck!

 

[LoveMyConlan]

You have to pattern them. Structure the interaction. Set a routine.

You set the tone from an early age.

This is wake up time. This is feeding time. This is your cage time. This is your outside time. This is when you have to play on your own. This is your lap time. This is time for bed...

You raise a macaw the same way you raise a human toddler. Structured interaction, boundary setting, discipline, and nurturing guidance. (By discipline I mean, they have to understand the boundaries and abide by them. No means NO! Discipline does not mean hitting... Sad I have to say that, but some folks interpret these things the wrong way.)

MACAWS ARE BIG MUSHY LAP BIRDS AT HEART... AND THEY ARE "PAIR BOND" BIRDS. (NOT FLOCK BIRDS.) In the wild, they form practically inseparable bonds with their mate, they mate for life, and they don't stray far from one another. In captivity, they transfer these natural behaviors to a human...

Not as a mating thing (unless you do things that confuse them) but as a companionship thing.

THEY DON'T GROW OUT OF IT!!! THIS IS THEIR TRUE NATURE. THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE...

Thanks for the advice

I guess I knew they were complete cuddlebugs but never imagined this ROFL. Most of the Macaws I've interacted with over the years have loved people, but we're content to play/sit alone. As far as touching... Head and neck scratches (his favorite), are about all we do. He does ask for a wing pit tickle every so often... He'll raise his wing and hold it up(we taught him to hold wings out for clipping) so he'll get a quick scratch and go back to his thing. Feet we really only play with to do nail trims and the occasional massage. And he will enjoy the random chin/upper-chest rub when he lays on his back.

We've tried to keep him desensitized to being touched due to his harness. I can grab his feet, lift his wings, role him over, and pick him up like a football (his wings tucked against his body and me wracking both hands around him over his wings/side). But we make sure anything lower than the shoulder wing area is off limits.

It just makes his outside time a bit harder. My smaller guys love some attention but I can put them on their play stands and do whatever... Though usually safety precautions have me staying were I can at least see them all. But I can move freely with them. Rhage is another story lol.

I kinda feel like I've ruined him in that way. Like I've taught him to not be independent.

I have friends that think it's hilarious and my vet believes that I shouldn't clip him and start Free-Flight work... Because, in his terms 'You'll spend more time teaching him to take off than to come back.'

I always thought it was cute and funny that he did this. I thought it was a baby thing and eventually I'd be chasing HIM around my house and finding his play time toys everywhere... Cause has a toy box for outside time Not the other way around lol

I specifically asked for a cuddle bug... Guess I got 100% what I wanted ROFL.

 

[Birdman666]

1. Natural Pair bond behaviors... you are this bird's person.

He behaves inside the cage because he's been patterned to know that this is the time I have to find ways to entertain myself.

HE HAS ALSO BEEN PATTERNED to where when he's out, it's playtime with his person. HE DOESN'T ACKNOWLEDGE THE BOUNDARY OF NOT NOW/WAIT YOUR TURN.

I waited when I was in the cage. THIS is my turn...

So, this is actually something you inadvertently trained him to do.

Now you need to gradually re-pattern him.

Structure the interaction. Give him a set routine.

Give him the lap time - same basic time - same basic amount of time every night.

Goes back on a playstand, or what ever. Same basic time. Same basic amount of time. You still get out time, and attention, just not held the entire time... SCREAMING AND FITS GET YOU IGNORED. YOU DON'T GET ATTENTION UNTIL YOU CALM DOWN. ACT UP, AND YOU GO BACK IN YOUR CAGE. CLIMBING DOWN MEANS YOU GET PUT RIGHT BACK WHERE YOU WERE.

You may have to do that last one about 100 times before he starts to "get it."

But that's essentially how it's done. 2-6 weeks of tantrums and bird drama. Followed by years of, this is just part of my daily routine.

I've undone PLENTY of other people's macaw training... THIS ONE I KNOW!!!

 

[Birdman666]

[
Thanks for the advice

I guess I knew they were complete cuddlebugs but never imagined this ROFL. Most of the Macaws I've interacted with over the years have loved people, but we're content to play/sit alone.

AH! BUT YOU WERE NOT THOSE BIRDS' PAIR BOND PERSON, WERE YOU?! SO THEY DIDN'T ACTIVELY SEEK YOU OUT... they were just socialized properly, so they didn't see you as a threat, and would allow interaction.

I kinda feel like I've ruined him in that way. Like I've taught him to not be independent.

NO. HE ISN'T RUINED. THESE ARE "LAP BIRDS"... you can work on the patterning. Get him a little less clingy...

SECOND, THESE ARE VERY STRONG PAIR BOND BIRDS. THAT IS THEIR NATURE. THEY ARE ATTENTION ORIENTED. THE PLAY SWITCH ONLY HAS AN OFF BUTTON FOR HEAD SCRATCHES, AND SUCH. THEY LOVE COMPLETELY, AND THEY WANT TO BE WITH YOU ALL THE TIME... Watch the flocks of wild macaws they are almost always 2 by 2... in captivity, they pick a person, behave the same way. So some of this is just their nature...

and some of it is this is what you've patterned him to expect. [Boundaries. Key issue with a big mac.]

 

[LoveMyConlan]

Thank you @Birdman666!! I appreciate any ideas/critiques I can get. He's my first MAC so I want to do right by him.

I don't want to try to make him independent period. I'd just like him to learn he can have fun outside the cage without having to be sitting on my for hours.

We structure his bed/feeding/wake up times. He'll even get cranky if the lights are still on at 10pm he's having a fit ROFL. And we are very strict with time outs and his limits. For instance he knows if he's getting to hard with the mouth, I tell him gentle, if he hasn't gentled, I say No in a stern but not yelling tone and he gets a 5 minute time out. He's even learned, unlike my diva Conure, to respect food plates. He used to reach for them to get food. Now he just waits until I offer him food from my hand. Time outs helped him learn that if he wanted to eat with the flock he needed to respect others.

I'll definatly try to structure his outside time with the play stand he's used to getting time outs if he misbehaves. Usually the word No will stop him, but occasionally he does need time outs.

Maybe do his cuddles first? This way he gets what he wants then he goes to the play stand? Each time he gets off I just put him back on? Should I leave him on the stand for short periods of time and work up? Or just go for the desired time from the start?

Or maybe do what I have to do while he is on his stand, then he can have his cuddles?

I just need to find the balance because we play on the floor and couch a lot since he wouldn't stay on his stand so he's not afraid of the floor and thinks it's fun.

He's not food or toy motivated. He's all about attention lol. But he LOVES looking out windows. Maybe placing his play stand so he can look out the window from a safe distance, it's winter here, will keep him occupied?

I'm more than willing to put the time in to being him back around from my screw up.

He's quiet, he's gentle, he's a goof ball, he's a total sweet heart, he's a quick learner... He's perfect. He's just clingy.

I just want him to spend more time out of his cage while I'm doing other things. It's hard to clean, work, and eat with him clinging to me.

I'm also terrified how this attachment will affect his hormones/demon period. That this attachment may cause plucking or mental issues.

He LOVES to shred things so I buy stock in shredding toys and enrichment boxes to keep him sharp and busy.

My hope is that eventually when I'm home, and not bed time, he can be out all day