For people who want the 'truth' about large Toos because they want one:

[Molcan2]

Warning - everything below is my personal opinion, please don't take offense.

This is for the people who post, wanting a Too (for whatever insane reason prompts them to wanting one) and want to know why so many people say to stay away from them. I'm not even going to touch on the screaming, biting, what they are capable of destroying or that they are emotional basket cases.

If your going to get a Too go with a smaller one. The bare eyed, RB2s, and G2s make really good companions. After acquiring a second bird I have put a bit more thought towards the care that Rome requires.

I have the personality for a large Too, so taking on Rome was no big deal. I naturally fell into the role of her care taker. Adding an SI Ekkie to the mix has put things in a bit more perspective. He is only 'high maintenance' because of his diet regimen. Otherwise he is just along for the ride. He likes to observe and hang out with the family. Hes been an absolute dream to have (super cute personality). Where as taking care of a large Too totally consumes you. Thats the best way I can describe it. A large Too requires ALL of you, every part of you that you have. Your life literately revolves around them (more so than with other birds by like ten fold). Its hard to explain exactly what it takes to make them happy. When I met Rocco's previous owners she was asked by someone once why she would take on a bird that was 'high maintenance' and she was like oh I guess I have a high maintenance bird. When I explained to her our day to day with Rome, her jaw about hit the floor. She was like yeah hes nothing like that just his diet is high maintenance. I never realized how much extra I do with Rome because its just comes second nature to me. I do it without even thinking about it. But when I talk to others and see what they do with their birds, its just a fraction of what I do with Rome. Having Rocco around has opened my eyes up (a LOT) to the difference of care that the large Toos require.

I love Rome but to be honest when we were on our way to see her I told my boyfriend I didnt want another Too, ever (but it felt right so we went anyway, fate sometimes makes your decisions for you). This is more because of my previous Male U2 that I had (who I loved dearly - miss you Cotton ), I remembered what it took to keep him happy . I will own Rome either for the rest of my life or for the rest of hers, she is apart of our family and we knew what we were getting into when we took her on. But (and I hate to say this) our lives would be so much easier without her. I love her and I'm glad that we have her in our lives and that she ended up with us. We will continue to provide the best environment possible for her and I would be completely devastated if anything ever happened to her. However it is taxing to have a large Too. And shes one that behaves perfectly, she has never bitten or offered to, shes very quiet, goes to any stranger, talks a bunch, doesn't chew on stuff shes not supposed to, isn't messy when she eats and is very pleasant to be around. But the work that it takes to keep her happy is more work than you will ever want to do. I really dont think the large Toos should even be in captivity, if I could return her to the wild I would in a heart beat. You do all you can for them and there is still something that you can sense in them that they are never fully happy. Vs. our new boy you give him a grape and hes in bliss, completely content just being in the same room as you wearing his grape (because yes he cant just eat his food he has to wear it).

If your set on a large Too, please rescue one. Visit a rescue (or several), see what really happens to them when they out live their owners, or when they no longer 'fit' into their household anymore. There are literately thousands in rescues, that should tell you something right there. They are a two year old child that lives for 80yrs. My Ekkie is a parrot, my M2 is something that intellectually/emotionally shouldn't be forced into captivity. My Ekkie - completely happy, takes minimal effort to keep him that way. My M2 - happy, but is a struggle all day every day to try to keep her that way. That is the difference. With a large Too you work and work and work to try to provide them with the best life possible and you will never truly ever succeed (if you think you have, dont fool yourself). With the Ekkie, you work to make him happy and you actually achieve that goal with him with little effort compared to what you do with a large Too.

Sorry for rambling.

 

[mtdoramike]

Sooooooo very true.

 

[SuperandZhana]

Molcan2,
That doesnt fit Zhana at all. He seems happy all the time except in the morning when I have to leave for a few hours and definitely not high maintenance.

 

[KatherineI]

I don't think most Too owners even realize the efforts because, most Too owners are inclined towards that to begin with. I didn't realize how easy Loki was (even with all his behavioral issues) until I brought Sugar home. She has to have things a particular way. We've rearranged our lives, our living spaces, our own routines, to accommodate Sugar; without even realizing it. The only reason I can say this is because, after reading your post, I started comparing life before Sugar to life with Sugar.

I must say though, now that we've moved her downstairs (out of the bedroom), we're utilizing more of the house instead of cooping ourselves up in the bedroom like we were. And she has a bedtime routine that's pretty necessary (which is one of the reasons we moved her, Loki doesn't care if the TV is still on at 10pm) and it's surprisingly helped us establish a routine as well. And I am NOT a routine person!! I never even had my daughter on any kind of routine when she was younger.

At least for me, having a Too has improved my life and I've been told by a lot of people that I seem much more happier now that I have Sugar, than I have been in a long time. Too's might be high maintenance, but I think it's well worth it!

 

[Beako_N_Kiwi]

Nice post. Can you share what day to day is like with Rome? You said that someone was shocked when you explained it! Haha. I have 3 amazons - 1 which has a long term illness, and two that just got done with their medications. I feel like hard work I put in is so rewarding but I am tired at the end of the day. I just wanted to see if your daily routine is like ours!

 

[Mare Miller]

Molcan2, you are so right on, I almost felt like it was me talking. I've always felt that my umbrella 'too, Amigo, was not meant to live in a house with humans, I was right. He is such an amazing animal being able to be who he is by living freely outside. He is still a part of our family but has his freedom. When he lived indoors with us,,,he was ALWAYS discontent, no matter what, I could tell that this bird was not meant to be living his life out in a house.

After bringing in our Goffin's cockatoo, Sassy, I realized, also, that not all birds are alike. She is a breeze! A breath of fresh air compared to living with our U2. She still needs to be fed fresh foods, she still needs to be kept clean, she still needs attention but she is happy and CONTENT hanging out in the house with us.

 

[Oedipussrex]

I can't claim to have any experience with a 'too of any kind. but this is a great post. The more posts like this on the internet, the better, because then potential 'too owners doing their research will read them, and hopefully truly think about how much time and effort they are able to put into their bird.

I just hope your post doesn't kind-of backfire and encourage potential 'too owners to look at ekkies as a backup plan if they decide they aren't quite up to being owned by a demanding parrot.

don;t get me wrong, i love pickle: but without the comparison to having experienced a 'too ekkies are still reasonably demanding.

For the good ones this just means food preparation and cleaning, yes. Id just like to add my two cents that once you have to deal with a needy male eclectus with behavioural issues for health/dietary/environmental/other reasons - it is not only demanding, but any parrot owner would find it stressful and mentally taxing to constantly be worrying about their fid because we know somethings not right and just cant fix it.

Research is very important when getting any new bird, and posts like this allow new owners to gather information from reliable first-hand experiences. so thank you for posting this.

i must say though, i thought i was fully prepared for pickle when i got him, i did my research, we shopped around, and i had everything ready at home for him; cages, toys, treats, even laminated reference books so my family members could check whether or not a type of food was safe if they weren't sure.

But you cant really appreciate the way any parrot makes your life revolve around them, until you have been owned by one.

 

[MacawGuy]

yea my parents had a moluccan for a while when i was younger and your talking about a handful. She was a very great bird very sweet. bit if they left the room she would yell to they came back. but they had her for like 15 to 20 years but she pass a few years ago. i help out with her but she was a handful. So i saw how it was with her i got a Macaw instead. But dont get me wrong cockatoo are wonderful birds. Just do your research to make sure they will fill your lifestyle.

 

[Molcan2]

SuperandZhana, there is always going to be exceptions but when you look at the mass majority most of them are not happy (look at the thousands in rescues vs. a handful of content ones). Also I really am a firm believer that large Toos are never fully happy unless they are living with a mate and raising chicks flying from tree to tree. Thats what I meant by them not ever truly being fulfilled.

Beako_N_Kiwi: I will try to think about what it is and get back to you with our routine. Its really hard to put it in words but I will try my best. Its more of a mental thing than physical.

Oedipussrex: Yeah I didn't mean to make it seem like Ekkies aren't work because they are but compared to my M2 (or the U2 I used to have) hes a walk in the park, it doesn't even feel like I have to try. I've been so used to large Toos.

KatherineI: I really think that Toos need to be separated into two categories - Large and Small. The large Toos are completely different from the small ones. Yes the small ones do still take a lot of work but nothing like the larger ones. Their temperaments are completely different. The smaller ones seem to be a lot more accepting of captivity and in general a lot more easier to please. I consider small to be the G2s, RB2s, Corellas, BE2s, and ducorp etc. The larger ones that I'm referring to are the U2s, M2s, MM2s, SC2s, etc. The difference in personality between the two groups makes it unfair to put them all in the same category.

Mare Miller: Thanks. I never realized just what I went through daily until adding Rocco. I know you posted before that you were looking forward to hearing about him. The difference is so major that its hard to put into words. It really floors me and leaves me a little speechless.

 

[PortaPerch]

I wonder if anybody has related the differences between large toos and small ones, due to their different habitat? Environment should provide clues to their behaviors.

 

[wenz2712]

Your words are so, so true!

 

[Mare Miller]

Molcan2, I recommend for everyone wanting a parrot, to please live with a U2 first. (I have one for rent!) Haha! There is certainly a difference!

PortaPerch, that would be a great research project. I'm not sure if their size difference, natural environment, food availability, etc., in their natural habit makes them what they are, or not.

 

[melissasparrots]

I have a greater sulfur crest that I've had for a little over ten years. I have never been persuaded by the whole mytoos.com mentality of cockatoo ownership. I raised my bird to be a bird first and frankly she isn't that much of a problem. I do think there is a certain shock factor that people go through when first bringing home a baby. My biggest concern is the people that think the little angel will be like that forever and end up with major feelings of betrayal or resentment the first time the little dear bites someone. Otherwise, I think if someone is doing all the things they should be doing for a pionus or eclectus, they can just step it up a little bit and likely have a very happy cockatoo.

I do think having an outdoor flight cage to fly around in for an hour or two every day could go a long way to allow some adult males to work off some of that energy that gets them into trouble. Otherwise, the way to a happy cockatoo is mental stimulation. Around here that usually takes the form of about 2 minutes every day throwing together a quick foraging toy. Usually dumping the food into a puzzle toy rather than just putting it in a bowl. Can't say as thats a major hardship for me. Sometimes I even go to the extent of wrapping up her food in coffee filters for her to forage. So far no carpel tunnel or stress headache from doing that. If I feel she needs a little extra, she goes with me for a short road trip or I spend 20 minutes with trick training in the evening instead of snuggling. Both of my cockatoos are well feathered and overall pretty happy with life I'd say. No doubt they are more difficult than some other species. However, my macaw is quite a bit more time consuming and needy. I suppose if someone were to do up a convincing mycaws.com version of the mytoos website, we'd soon be hearing of people spouting off about how hard it is to own a macaw and how special everyone who can pull it off is. I'm just not convinced. At no point have I ever thought I wanted to release mine into the wild. I'd rather she not get eaten, shot by locals, have bot flies growing under her skin or be forced to eat fruit fermenting on the tree, or die of some nasty virus. There was a study done and published by Kaytee not too long ago and if you looked at the basic numbers, macaws where about the same if not a little higher than cockatoos for ending up in rescues or rehoming. Amazons not too far behind. I would not say that cockatoos are that much more difficult. They might require more dedication, but I don’t think they are that much harder. I do not conduct my entire life around my cockatoo. I make time for her every day and she is a priority. But I do have a life outside of her and I do not spend hours upon hours every day doting upon her or worrying. Probably more like 20-60 minutes snuggling or playing or trick taining.
Melissa

 

[Mare Miller]

melisasparrots, I need to tell you that if you want a healthy, more happy parrot, in the home,,,they need more than 20 to 60 mins. of your time, a day. How can you even think this could be what's best for your large cockatoo??! Poor things, my heart aches for these creatures that were not meant to be in a cage, let alone a smallish cage in a house.

 

[HumanWings]

After reading this entire thread I did not get from what Melissa'sParrots said as her neglecting her parrots or forcing them to live in a cage most of the day. I think she raises her Too differently then Molcan2 and that that's the point she was trying to make.

After reading this thread I wondered what Molcan2 does do and doesn't do with her Too on a daily basis. It would be VERY helpful if Molcan2 explained to us why she feels large Too's are so much more work. What she generally said in her post was that they are more work without saying exactly what work she is talking about. Just because something is more work doesn't mean it isn't worth it. I am not trying to attack Molcan2. I am trying to explain that if a description of what work exactly she does with her large Too that makes it so hard it would help others like myself who don't have a Too. We could go over what she puts and evaluate for ourselves weather or not the work is worth it to us individually.

Molcan2 a thorough explanation of the work you do with your large Too would be VERY helpful.

 

[Mare Miller]

I'm not sure what Molcan2 meant exactly, but I sure feel her pain! I can't speak for her is what I'm trying to say.

An umbrella cockatoo is the only 'too I am familiar with, he is a 13yr. old male. (although I now have a goffin female 7yr. old 'too, for all of 5 weeks),(she is a dream, I've got to say) . If my U2, Amigo, is anything like other adult male cockatoos...he has ALWAYS and in ALL ways, been a hand full!!

He is super smart, you can see him thinking and calculating at all times. These birds are too smart for their own good. They make it hard, for us as humans, to entertain them enough to keep them emotionally healthy. They are wild animals put into confinement. Even though most, these days, are hand raised,,,their instincts are still intact. They are wild at heart. After living in our home with Amigo for 2yrs. and witnessing his discomfort, screaming, climbing the walls/curtains, being territorial of the living room where the family hangs out together, launching/landing on family members, trying to dismember them, got to be a bit much.

This being said, I no longer live a day to day existence with a male umbrella cockatoo in my home. He lives outside, comes and goes as he pleases, still a big part of our life but not confined. Seeing him be what he was meant to be...I have no words...I've used them too many times.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I agree that the large toos shouldn't be kept as pets, they are so emotional and intelligent and very few people ca give them their proper care. I remember reading an article about a plucked too(either a u2 or m2) that was treated like a child and couldn't cope with the expectations that it's human companions pushed onto him.

No matter how much I love big toos I don't think I can handle one, at least not now. Last night I accidental woke Rosie up so she was very grumpy but not showing it how she normally does. I touched her on the ear and she bit my hand(not all that hard), then she lost her balance and bit my neck at my at the jugular to hold on. If she was a big too I could of been in seriously trouble, luckily having a a messed up leg that cause balance issues isn't all that common in birds and I assume a big too could keep their balance a little better.

 

[terry52449]

I have to agree completely having two U2s both rescued birds. However I have found that my Cameo just loves to be in all the family activity and is perfectly happy sitting on his cage or play gym watching all what goes on. Tasha is very selfish about everything. Wants to totally command all your attention and time. So each too is different but still are a very demanding animal. Just have to get lucky and find what will entertain them.

 

[MickeysMom]

I have to agree completely having two U2s both rescued birds. However I have found that my Cameo just loves to be in all the family activity and is perfectly happy sitting on his cage or play gym watching all what goes on. Tasha is very selfish about everything. Wants to totally command all your attention and time. So each too is different but still are a very demanding animal. Just have to get lucky and find what will entertain them.

This is the part I find more difficult with our U2, she is selfish! Not in a human way, but just naturally it is alllll about her....alllll the time.

The more work part for me is providing her with the stimulation she craves. She has more toys than carter has little liver pills....but she wants to shred the boxes they came in rather than play with them. She wants to be in the middle of everything, and will scream bloody murder if that is not possible....It's more mental than physical work.

We try to balance her wants, with what is good for her. She cannot for instance be with us if we are fixing the plumbing (couple of weeks ago) but I felt horrible hearing her call for us, knowing she knew we were right there, but wouldn't let her be with us. The hard part, was knowing that she didn't know why. I felt like a horrible mother at that point. It was exhausting to me, because I could sense her frustration, but realistically I couldn't do anything about it. That is just one example. Now our GCC would have been just as happy with some fruit or a new toy for those couple of hours. I think this is the type of thing we are talking about here.

 

[melissasparrots]

melisasparrots, I need to tell you that if you want a healthy, more happy parrot, in the home,,,they need more than 20 to 60 mins. of your time, a day. How can you even think this could be what's best for your large cockatoo??! Poor things, my heart aches for these creatures that were not meant to be in a cage, let alone a smallish cage in a house.

I look at her body language and behavior. She's not doing a lot of behavioral plucking. She doesn't do a lot of self stimulating repetative behaviors. She does small amount of cockatoo strut and display but doesn't scream for hours. She's content if my routine is disrupted and I don't have much time for her that day because she knows that normally she does get that time. She plays with her toys. She snuggles and seeks out attention but isn't overly demanding of it. Her overall body language is relaxed. I just raised her to be a bird.

I have to say, I did go into it years ago with the mytoos website in mind. I had to totally throw all that mentality out the window when she had a total meltdown after I had to give her shots. I spent several years earning back her trust and that caused me to take a giant step back. I no longer anthropomorphize wondering what it must be like to be locked up all day or to fly free in the jungle. Instead what makes her happy is most important. If she's happy, then I'm doing it right. She is happy here. I long ago gave up species stereotypes and the opinions of experts and I just work with the bird that is in front of me. I let their personality evolve and I work with the behaviors they show me and what they seem to need. Its a constant check and balance. I see happy behaviors, I continue with the normal routine. I start to see some self repetitive or over grooming behaviors and I mix things up a little bit. Often times all that is needed is a new toy.

I don't think she's selfish or high strung. Sensitive certainly. I will say there is less room for error with a cockatoo. You have to set yourself up right from the start to prevent bad behaviors. Things like not letting them run loose on the floor where they can attack feet and ruin property. Not having them out every second while your home so that you can do things like attend to the plumbing without the little darling thinking its her right and privilage to be out just because moms home. I work and I have hobbies that take me away from home. I do those things to balance out my life. If I make it all about the cockatoo, that is how people burn out fast, develop resentments, and end up rehoming their bird. In the process of balancing my own life, I now have a very well balanced cockatoo. Some days she gets several hours out. Some days none at all. The norm is usually in the range of 20-60 minutes for snuggles and one on one attention and then another hour or so out and about. Once a week I try to squeeze in a marathon snuggle fest that might last a couple hours unless she decides she'd rather be elsewhere. Which does happen. She's a bird after all.
Melissa