Fighting. 𝐔𝐫𝐠𝐞𝐧𝐭!

[MissMac]

Hi all. I have two female ringnecks, Missy and Gracie, both now just a years old and both, I am guessing (well one is) hormonal. Missy, it's obvious, but Gracie, well no. She has become closer to me in the last few months - out of fear or for safety more than anything I am guessing, but other than that I see nothing anywhere near what resembles Missy's behaviour.
Because Missy, (I hand reared her from 5 weeks, but Gracie, I got from the breeder at about 3 months) is very hormonal, she is aggressive towards Gracie. Gracie tries to stand her ground but she is bullied by Missy and coming from a bullied past myself it's heart breaking.
Neither birds fly. Missy could and did, and she did escape and prove it... which is why I got Gracie. I never thought I'd see Missy again as she was only 3 months old when she got out. I was very lucky to get her back but I did go above and beyond in finding her. I had massive issues in handling her and now her wings are clipped - for my sanity and for Missy's safety. Please don't judge me for that. Gracie never learnt to fly as she was clipped when I got her. Missy uses this to her advantage and will often push Gracie to the point of where she has to take flight in order to get away from Missy. I try to run interference as best I can but I can't be everywhere at once.
Now, I can't afford to buy two cages and quite frankly I don't have the room. As it is, with the dire housing situation here in Australia, there might come a time soon, when I will have to let them go to another home.
So because I have the one cage, Missy is claiming it to be ALL hers... which, in all fairness, it was to begin with.... but now it is shared. Missy the bully, won't let Gracie come in the cage of an evening for bedtime and now I am having to chase Gracie, to get her to put her in the cage, as Missy is already there.
Can I or has anyone, divided the cage for their birds? They are free range all day so they only sleep in it of a night.
#Note - I, at this very moment, had to run interference just then as Missy, once again, had her trapped and a fight was ensuing. I scolded Missy and she went right to the cage and took it out on a toy in the cage.
... and I was adding something to the earlier part of the post, I had to go and do it again. Missy came out of her cage right back to tormenting Gracie. She knows she is doing it but I can't stop her.
I fear for Gracie. What can I do? How long does this thing last? Thing as in hormonal thing.

 

[LeeC]

Hello, @MissMac. I appreciate your fear of their escape—especially after Missy actually did! I cannot imagine. I am sure that was awful for you and scary for her. I'd love to hear the story of how you got her back. Please, do tell.

Being a big proponent of getting a parrot a parrot (same-species, ideally), I commend you for now keeping two IRNs, even though you did not set out to.

I have experience with clipped and flighted parrots, including long-time clipped parrots that I worked long and hard to transform into flighted parrots. I have seen so many behavioral problems that exist in clipped parrots that would not come to be in flighted parrots—or, that are solved by a parrot gaining flight. (I could write a book about my Senegal who was clipped for nearly 30 years before I got him, and what a wonderful personality transformation I saw as he became flighted.)

Nature gives them "fight or flight". If we remove flight, all that is left is fight. That is bad. We don't want them to fight. Fight is not just typical fighting with another parrot. Fight is also what gets us a bite many times, too. Clipping seems like a "fix", but it treats the symptom, not the cause. With my flighted parrots, if one doesn't like what the other is doing, they just fly off, as you said Gracie tries to do. To be candid, I think flight is a right for any and all birds, even captive parrots. Please don't judge me for that. :] Parrots need flight for physical and mental health. I do understand why and how keepers such as yourself come to see it as a solution. Please reconsider clipping.

To prevent escape here, I have "bird netting" or "garden" netting hanging across my foyer entry, so parrots cannot fly right out the door. I have made several accommodations for their safety, given they are flighted. It is well worth it every time I see them flying around my house. It is such a beautiful sight to behold; birds should fly.

I have become quite the creative thinker, keeping free-roaming, flighted parrots in my house. Your predicament is a tough one! I have learned that in my house (open floorplan), they get territorial of areas of a room, meaning, they want their own space, even outside of a cage, so getting your two girls to share a cage may be impossible. (I am a hopeless optimist, so it pains me to say that.) Each parrot seems to need their own space. I think females are more territorial than males. My female Senegal is far worse than the males.

Two ideas:

1. https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-pet-products/bird+cage/k0c18438r10?categoryRedirected=true
2. Set up a "station" for Gracie, and let her live outside of Missy's cage. That's actually how all of my parrots live. It has some challenges, but many of those are because my parrots all fly now.

 

[SailBoat]

With the restrictions that you have placed, it becomes a point of either re-home or create an overnight remote perch for Gracie, as stated above. Since she is being bullied, she will likely enjoy the new digs away from the bully.

 

[MissMac]

Hello, @MissMac. I appreciate your fear of their escape—especially after Missy actually did! I cannot imagine. I am sure that was awful for you and scary for her. I'd love to hear the story of how you got her back. Please, do tell.

Being a big proponent of getting a parrot a parrot (same-species, ideally), I commend you for now keeping two IRNs, even though you did not set out to.

I have experience with clipped and flighted parrots, including long-time clipped parrots that I worked long and hard to transform into flighted parrots. I have seen so many behavioral problems that exist in clipped parrots that would not come to be in flighted parrots—or, that are solved by a parrot gaining flight. (I could write a book about my Senegal who was clipped for nearly 30 years before I got him, and what a wonderful personality transformation I saw as he became flighted.)

Nature gives them "fight or flight". If we remove flight, all that is left is fight. That is bad. We don't want them to fight. Fight is not just typical fighting with another parrot. Fight is also what gets us a bite many times, too. Clipping seems like a "fix", but it treats the symptom, not the cause. With my flighted parrots, if one doesn't like what the other is doing, they just fly off, as you said Gracie tries to do. To be candid, I think flight is a right for any and all birds, even captive parrots. Please don't judge me for that. :] Parrots need flight for physical and mental health. I do understand why and how keepers such as yourself come to see it as a solution. Please reconsider clipping.

To prevent escape here, I have "bird netting" or "garden" netting hanging across my foyer entry, so parrots cannot fly right out the door. I have made several accommodations for their safety, given they are flighted. It is well worth it every time I see them flying around my house. It is such a beautiful sight to behold; birds should fly.

I have become quite the creative thinker, keeping free-roaming, flighted parrots in my house. Your predicament is a tough one! I have learned that in my house (open floorplan), they get territorial of areas of a room, meaning, they want their own space, even outside of a cage, so getting your two girls to share a cage may be impossible. (I am a hopeless optimist, so it pains me to say that.) Each parrot seems to need their own space. I think females are more territorial than males. My female Senegal is far worse than the males.

Two ideas:

1. https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-pet-products/bird+cage/k0c18438r10?categoryRedirected=true
2. Set up a "station" for Gracie, and let her live outside of Missy's cage. That's actually how all of my parrots live. It has some challenges, but many of those are because my parrots all fly now.

Thank you for your long but well written reply to my post. Missy is the one that can fly (they both can but Missy has experience) but she is the bully here. She is cornering Gracie into flight, Gracie tries to fight but Missy, although the same age as Gracie (approx) is bigger. I'd say because muscles. So all Gracie can do is to fly... which is more of a controlled downing...
One thing I didn't mention in detail, but I alluded to in my original post, is that I am an artist and have my artwork all over my house. I've worked hard on my projects and try as I might , Missy simply wasn't leaving them alone. I have now got many damaged artworks. I tried to train her to not go on them, etc, but it was like a defiant child (which - of course, she is)bucking the rules... she purposely set out to damage them. I know any attention is good attention and this is no doubt what Missy was after, but I just couldn't let it continue. My mental health collapsed when she escaped - literally, I had a breakdown, so her behaviour was keeping me on edge. Something had to give and sadly it was me in that instance.... she was clipped. I agree fully, if you don't want a bird flying then get a hamster... but it was all too much for me at the time. This time I now have, with them both a little more controllable , I can train them easier than I could before. I have not clipped Gracie's wings, they were clipped when I got her, and it is only now, after having her for 10 months, that she is coming to me, of her choosing, for a pat... and she would sit on my shoulder for hours (at least an hour has been the longest one so far) with her head pressed against the side of my face, for a pat. We have this agreed upon arrangement... if her head isn't against my face, then no pat - she just wants to sit there.
I have no forward thinking plans to continue their clipping - it goes against my beliefs as well as yours. But as it takes a year for their feathers to regrow, this sort of evens the playing field for Gracie... in a small way. Gracie tho, sill likes to sit near Missy, especially when it's nap time - Missy, on the other hand, is a teenager that doesn't want to babysit her younger sister...
I divided their cage with a makeshift curtain last night. It kept them separate all night so will see how we go with doing this.
I am still hoping this is just all hormones and can't wait till the season is over for them... which I have no idea when that could be.

 

[LeeC]

Wow, your situation is even more challenging, with your artwork. I am truly sorry to hear what you went through. I know just how much parrots can challenge a person. I am still Army strong, but the flock here has made me want cry for a fleeting moment a few times. They are so smart and so persistent. My challenges are virtually all with them interacting with one another at times.

Your curtain divider is a good idea! I am glad to hear that it seemed to work. I made sleeping boxes for all of mine. They all love them! They can be used inside or outside the cage. Wood lasts longer, but a simple cardboard box can do the trick, too.

 

[LeeC]

I shared photos and info here:

Some cage help please!

I'm new to birds. I have a male 5month old Indian ringneck. He's absolutely amazing, very trusting, very affectionate. A bit of a terrorist if I'm trying to do something, but otherwise incredibly well behaved! I only got bitten for the first 3 days and he's molting and bluffing so I consider...

www.parrotforums.com

 

[MissMac]

I made sleeping boxes for all of mine.

I am wary of being bashed for making "Nesting" boxes. How are sleeping boxes different?

 

[LeeC]

I am wary of being bashed for making "Nesting" boxes. How are sleeping boxes different?

Darkness and a flat bottom (suitable as a surface for a nest and egg laying) are a key feature of a nestbox. Sleeping boxes have an open front, to let a lot of light in, and they can have a perch as the bottom. From another perspective, you could call it a roosting-perch "surround". :]

That link above goes directly to my post with photos. Here it is again.

Some cage help please!

I'm new to birds. I have a male 5month old Indian ringneck. He's absolutely amazing, very trusting, very affectionate. A bit of a terrorist if I'm trying to do something, but otherwise incredibly well behaved! I only got bitten for the first 3 days and he's molting and bluffing so I consider...

www.parrotforums.com

I found this article, which has a very similar take on them.

Conure Sleepboxes — What, Why, and When

http://birdcompanions.com/_FCA%20Sleepboxes%202006.pdf

If you use a cardboard box, when they chew the box to make nesting material, it lets more light in and destroys the "surround", so they defeat their intentions—and, you need to make a new one. :]

 

[MissMac]

Darkness and a flat bottom (suitable as a surface for a nest and egg laying) are a key feature of a nestbox. Sleeping boxes have an open front, to let a lot of light in, and they can have a perch as the bottom. From another perspective, you could call it a roosting-perch "surround". :]

That link above goes directly to my post with photos. Here it is again.

Some cage help please!

I'm new to birds. I have a male 5month old Indian ringneck. He's absolutely amazing, very trusting, very affectionate. A bit of a terrorist if I'm trying to do something, but otherwise incredibly well behaved! I only got bitten for the first 3 days and he's molting and bluffing so I consider...

www.parrotforums.com

I found this article, which has a very similar take on them.

Conure Sleepboxes — What, Why, and When

http://birdcompanions.com/_FCA%20Sleepboxes%202006.pdf

If you use a cardboard box, when they chew the box to make nesting material, it lets more light in and destroys the "surround", so they defeat their intentions—and, you need to make a new one. :]

Wow, I honestly don't know how you manage to keep their area so clean. My girls poop every 10 minutes and their food goes everywhere.
I will see how we go with the curtain but if it doesn't work I will try to make a sleep box. The only issue would be keeping Missy out of Gracie's box.

 

[LeeC]

Wow, I honestly don't know how you manage to keep their area so clean. My girls poop every 10 minutes and their food goes everywhere.
I will see how we go with the curtain but if it doesn't work I will try to make a sleep box. The only issue would be keeping Missy out of Gracie's box.

I keep extra boxes mounted around the house, several more sleeping boxes than parrots, so they can go claim another if one is disputed. To my pleasant surprise, claim of any given box has never been strongly contested. There have been takeovers, but the loser quickly went to another without issue.

I hope the curtain serves them well.

I thought and wondered, if your cage is a flat-top, could you add a small cage on top? Stacking is ideally avoided, but in your case, ....

 

[Littleredbeak]

I keep extra boxes mounted around the house, several more sleeping boxes than parrots, so they can go claim another if one is disputed. To my pleasant surprise, claim of any given box has never been strongly contested. There have been takeovers, but the loser quickly went to another without issue.

I hope the curtain serves them well.

I thought and wondered, if your cage is a flat-top, could you add a small cage on top? Stacking is ideally avoided, but in your case, ....

I second maybe getting a smaller cage to use as Gracies sleeping cage

 

[LeeC]

if you don't want a bird flying then get a hamster

I meant to ask, may I use this, or did you copyright it? :]

 

[MissMac]

I keep extra boxes mounted around the house, several more sleeping boxes than parrots, so they can go claim another if one is disputed. To my pleasant surprise, claim of any given box has never been strongly contested. There have been takeovers, but the loser quickly went to another without issue.

I hope the curtain serves them well.

I thought and wondered, if your cage is a flat-top, could you add a small cage on top? Stacking is ideally avoided, but in your case, ....

I meant to ask, may I use this, or did you copyright it? :]

Go for it.

 

[MissMac]

I thought and wondered, if your cage is a flat-top, could you add a small cage on top? Stacking is ideally avoided, but in your case, ....

This is their set up and as you can see their cage is slotted underneath the main play gym. Regarding the cube shelving the other side and two of them on this side are all the bird things. Toys, toy making things, foods etc. The little play gym beside my computer is now covered in toys but in reality it is only Gracie that plays with them.

 

[LeeC]

This is their set up and as you can see their cage is slotted underneath the main play gym. Regarding the cube shelving the other side and two of them on this side are all the bird things. Toys, toy making things, foods etc. The little play gym beside my computer is now covered in toys but in reality it is only Gracie that plays with them.

OH! I recognize that setup from a different post you made recently. :] I did not make the connection to this post. I'd say your parrots are getting their fair share of the place. I don't know if is a viable option for you, but could you mount a little sleeping cage to the ceiling someplace?

In my mind's eye, I picture a typical Budgie cage...

Mounted high on the wall, by screws through the back, into proper wall anchors, or on a shelf that is sturdy.

 

[LeeC]

I knew I saw a YouTuber who had her cages mounted to the wall, up to the ceiling. She just removed the base from a regular "standing" cage.

The mounting screws are under a cage crossbar, for support, which is hard to see due to the woodgrain and the matching color of the cage and the wood. You could do this with a smaller cage, of course.

Here is a link to that video where you can get a better look.

 

[MissMac]

OH! I recognize that setup from a different post you made recently. :] I did not make the connection to this post. I'd say your parrots are getting their fair share of the place. I don't know if is a viable option for you, but could you mount a little sleeping cage to the ceiling someplace?

In my mind's eye, I picture a typical Budgie cage...
View attachment 45363

Mounted high on the wall, by screws through the back, into proper wall anchors, or on a shelf that is sturdy.

View attachment 45362

I rent this home so I'm not allowed to do such things to the walls. So far the curtain in their cage, is working. Last night, I moved the boing that leads them down to their cage after Missy had gotten in so that Gracie doesn't have to go across her to get into her side. I stepped back and encouraged Gracie all along, while she was testing the waters as it were, and she got into her side without drama.
Do you know how long this hormonal thing lasts for them?