temporary159
New member
- Oct 3, 2024
- 1
- 0
- Parrots
- Black Capped Conure
Sun Conure
New to the forums, posting out of desperation. Forgive the wall of text, I've tried to be brief but there's a lot going on here.
Background: 20-odd years ago as a bachelor I had a Sun Conure. Loved him, super fun bird, lost him suddenly due to health issue. Wife heard me talk about him over the years, we decided we'd get a bird. About 3 years ago got a turquoise Green Cheek who was, zero exaggeration, the best bird we could have asked for (GCC 'nippiness' aside). He loved both of us, loved getting head scratches, constantly wanted tummy tickles and would legit laugh as I tickled him then roll over and wiggle his feet to get tickled again, in the evenings after dinner as we reclined on the couch he'd crawl onto my wife's chin and force her to kiss him over and over, loved spending every minute with us. One day he somehow dislocated his knee. Drove 3 states away for specialist care. He ended up dying during surgery, they said complications from the anesthesia. That incident crushed us both.
After a few months we both decided that we both felt empty without a bird at home, so headed to the aviary and got a sweet little Black Capped Conure we named 'Pip' who right away took to getting head scratches and snuggles and we were loving having a bird to lavish with affection again. She also had a very soft and sweet little chirp that she would call for us and soft little 'cooing' sounds in our ears as she rode on our shoulders. When we got her from the aviary she had been caged with siblings, and as much as she enjoyed snuggles she sometimes seemed lonely not having another bird around so we went back a month later and wife picked out a Sun (since she remembered the stories of my old bird) who seemed playful and outgoing with the other birds, and who seemed to enjoy nibbling on fingers so my wife called her 'Nibs' (short for Nibbler from Futurama). The two birds took to each other very well... however...
While she is outgoing and social with the other birds, Nibs is very very hand-averse despite being hand-raised and fed at the aviary. She does not step up well or reliably unless we use a stick, she avoids hands and will go so far as to let herself fall to the bottom of her play centers or cage trying to escape hands. She will resort to biting if she feels she has no escape. We've had them both for a few months now and despite trying to be as patient as we can and give her as much gentle acclimation as she needs we have seen zero progress, in fact things seem to be moving backwards; When we first got her she would step up onto a finger about half the time, now I'd say it's less than 10% and she seems quicker to resort to aggression.
Nibs is also very, very, VERY loud and has screaming fits with zero provocation. Her fits get Pip going as well, and the volume and intensity of Pip's calls have increased in a rate I'd not have thought possible in her efforts to match Nibs. I have hearing damage and these fits are an issue and cause very visceral reactions for me and I have to leave the room. It's to the point that when we come home from going somewhere I can barely stand being in the house until my wife gets them out of their cages, I either wait to go in or I immediately flee to another room.
Both birds are out-of-cage and with us from morning to night, partly because we want them to live freely and partly because Nibs will literally scream until you let her out. They have a large cage each for 'personal space' and we have multiple play centers throughout the house (at my computer desk, in my wife's office, etc). They spend all day with us, out of cages, with one or both of us throughout the house. They are not ignored or starved for attention. I spend time each day working with them both 1-on-1 as well as both at the same time. During training Nibs will always act just fine, and as long as she is being fed a stream of treats she will reliably step up and do all sorts of activities (as long as it only involves her making contact with a hand, not a hand touching her) right up until the training is done, then she goes back to being anti-social and borderline aggressive.
Pip, in the time that Nibs has been with us, has begun taking after Nibs and has stopped letting us pet her, no longer seems interested in our affection and will recoil from our hands if we try to scratch her head, has started nipping at us, and sometimes screams for zero reason.
I am having great difficulty dealing with the scenario. Every day for the past couple of weeks has a similar arc as the day progresses with 3 phases:
1- I become upset after training/acclimation (or just sometimes a bad interaction that happens from nowhere) at the lack of progress/continued regression to a more feral state than they were when we got them, as well as upset that Pip is "backsliding" from Nibs' example despite both birds showing during these active training sessions that they know and are capable of being social and not having these behavioral issues;
2- The frustrations reopen the wounds of our little boy's death and feeling his loss yet again because we never had these kinds of problems with him, he was always so easy going and was just happy to love and be loved, missing him even more because now I can only think about how much I miss him, then getting bitter at both new birds for not being "as good" as our other little boy was and resenting them for being such problems (Nibs much more than Pip since she seems to be the cause of it all) compared to the little boy that was taken from us;
3- feeling bad because that's a supremely unfair comparison, it's not their fault, they're just birds reacting to their environment but I can't find the thing that's causing these problems no matter what I try to change on my end, then my wife sees how much this situation is bothering me and starts muttering about how she's so sorry that she wanted a second bird and she feels like this is all her fault that this situation has gone so wrong, then I feel terrible for everything and decide to let them rest for the day and pick it all up again tomorrow hoping for a different result.
It's the joke about Einstein's definition of insanity.
This is not a tenable situation. This won't work as a permanent or long-term scenario. At the same time, it's lose-lose for me. I stay as things are, with Nibs clearly not interested in ever changing and Pip learning from her bad example, resenting both birds for not being the bird that I lost and miss so dearly, and end up hating them both, -OR- I remove Nibs from the situation, risk that Pip will may likely have behavioral problems after introducing a new bird then taking it away or at the very least simply staying with the behavior she has learned from Nibs this far and not being affectionate or social with us, all while knowing how much it will affect my wife to think that this second bird she wanted and that she specifically and solely chose is such a problem, that HER bird can't stay in our home, and dealing with all the baggage and fallout from her emotional response to the situation.
I have watched hours and hours of videos, I have read countless pages of recommendations here and all over google from specialists and hobbyists recommending ways to acclimate and they all boil down to the same thing: Birds take time, give it time, don't pressure the bird, give them time. It's been months and time isn't working, Nibs learns tricks but the overarching situation is only getting worse by comparison. I don't know what to do so I'm asking for your alternate solutions. If you have any idea what I can try to solve this problem, please by all means give me something.
Background: 20-odd years ago as a bachelor I had a Sun Conure. Loved him, super fun bird, lost him suddenly due to health issue. Wife heard me talk about him over the years, we decided we'd get a bird. About 3 years ago got a turquoise Green Cheek who was, zero exaggeration, the best bird we could have asked for (GCC 'nippiness' aside). He loved both of us, loved getting head scratches, constantly wanted tummy tickles and would legit laugh as I tickled him then roll over and wiggle his feet to get tickled again, in the evenings after dinner as we reclined on the couch he'd crawl onto my wife's chin and force her to kiss him over and over, loved spending every minute with us. One day he somehow dislocated his knee. Drove 3 states away for specialist care. He ended up dying during surgery, they said complications from the anesthesia. That incident crushed us both.
After a few months we both decided that we both felt empty without a bird at home, so headed to the aviary and got a sweet little Black Capped Conure we named 'Pip' who right away took to getting head scratches and snuggles and we were loving having a bird to lavish with affection again. She also had a very soft and sweet little chirp that she would call for us and soft little 'cooing' sounds in our ears as she rode on our shoulders. When we got her from the aviary she had been caged with siblings, and as much as she enjoyed snuggles she sometimes seemed lonely not having another bird around so we went back a month later and wife picked out a Sun (since she remembered the stories of my old bird) who seemed playful and outgoing with the other birds, and who seemed to enjoy nibbling on fingers so my wife called her 'Nibs' (short for Nibbler from Futurama). The two birds took to each other very well... however...
While she is outgoing and social with the other birds, Nibs is very very hand-averse despite being hand-raised and fed at the aviary. She does not step up well or reliably unless we use a stick, she avoids hands and will go so far as to let herself fall to the bottom of her play centers or cage trying to escape hands. She will resort to biting if she feels she has no escape. We've had them both for a few months now and despite trying to be as patient as we can and give her as much gentle acclimation as she needs we have seen zero progress, in fact things seem to be moving backwards; When we first got her she would step up onto a finger about half the time, now I'd say it's less than 10% and she seems quicker to resort to aggression.
Nibs is also very, very, VERY loud and has screaming fits with zero provocation. Her fits get Pip going as well, and the volume and intensity of Pip's calls have increased in a rate I'd not have thought possible in her efforts to match Nibs. I have hearing damage and these fits are an issue and cause very visceral reactions for me and I have to leave the room. It's to the point that when we come home from going somewhere I can barely stand being in the house until my wife gets them out of their cages, I either wait to go in or I immediately flee to another room.
Both birds are out-of-cage and with us from morning to night, partly because we want them to live freely and partly because Nibs will literally scream until you let her out. They have a large cage each for 'personal space' and we have multiple play centers throughout the house (at my computer desk, in my wife's office, etc). They spend all day with us, out of cages, with one or both of us throughout the house. They are not ignored or starved for attention. I spend time each day working with them both 1-on-1 as well as both at the same time. During training Nibs will always act just fine, and as long as she is being fed a stream of treats she will reliably step up and do all sorts of activities (as long as it only involves her making contact with a hand, not a hand touching her) right up until the training is done, then she goes back to being anti-social and borderline aggressive.
Pip, in the time that Nibs has been with us, has begun taking after Nibs and has stopped letting us pet her, no longer seems interested in our affection and will recoil from our hands if we try to scratch her head, has started nipping at us, and sometimes screams for zero reason.
I am having great difficulty dealing with the scenario. Every day for the past couple of weeks has a similar arc as the day progresses with 3 phases:
1- I become upset after training/acclimation (or just sometimes a bad interaction that happens from nowhere) at the lack of progress/continued regression to a more feral state than they were when we got them, as well as upset that Pip is "backsliding" from Nibs' example despite both birds showing during these active training sessions that they know and are capable of being social and not having these behavioral issues;
2- The frustrations reopen the wounds of our little boy's death and feeling his loss yet again because we never had these kinds of problems with him, he was always so easy going and was just happy to love and be loved, missing him even more because now I can only think about how much I miss him, then getting bitter at both new birds for not being "as good" as our other little boy was and resenting them for being such problems (Nibs much more than Pip since she seems to be the cause of it all) compared to the little boy that was taken from us;
3- feeling bad because that's a supremely unfair comparison, it's not their fault, they're just birds reacting to their environment but I can't find the thing that's causing these problems no matter what I try to change on my end, then my wife sees how much this situation is bothering me and starts muttering about how she's so sorry that she wanted a second bird and she feels like this is all her fault that this situation has gone so wrong, then I feel terrible for everything and decide to let them rest for the day and pick it all up again tomorrow hoping for a different result.
It's the joke about Einstein's definition of insanity.
This is not a tenable situation. This won't work as a permanent or long-term scenario. At the same time, it's lose-lose for me. I stay as things are, with Nibs clearly not interested in ever changing and Pip learning from her bad example, resenting both birds for not being the bird that I lost and miss so dearly, and end up hating them both, -OR- I remove Nibs from the situation, risk that Pip will may likely have behavioral problems after introducing a new bird then taking it away or at the very least simply staying with the behavior she has learned from Nibs this far and not being affectionate or social with us, all while knowing how much it will affect my wife to think that this second bird she wanted and that she specifically and solely chose is such a problem, that HER bird can't stay in our home, and dealing with all the baggage and fallout from her emotional response to the situation.
I have watched hours and hours of videos, I have read countless pages of recommendations here and all over google from specialists and hobbyists recommending ways to acclimate and they all boil down to the same thing: Birds take time, give it time, don't pressure the bird, give them time. It's been months and time isn't working, Nibs learns tricks but the overarching situation is only getting worse by comparison. I don't know what to do so I'm asking for your alternate solutions. If you have any idea what I can try to solve this problem, please by all means give me something.
