Fear of flying

[buurd]

Hi, all. I'm so happy to find this forum.

I have had my Rosys for about 3 months now. I have never had birds before. I've been trying to learn as much as I can about parrots and specifically Bourke's, but since Bourke's are separate than other grass parrots in both their natural habitat and body structure (they dont chew on the cage and they dont climb), I am insecure about adapting the regular info on grass parrots, and budgies, to the grass parrots.

For example, bathing. My two rosys (m & f , 2 yrs old) do not seem to want to bathe. Ive sprayed them with a fine mist over their cage, and they didnt like that, either. They didnt attempt to flap their wings or preen, etc. They just sat there. Ive tried tthis a few times, and its always the same.
Do they not know how to bathe? Or do they just hate bathing? Do they *ever* bathe?
Since they come from a mostly arid environment, I dont know what to expect from them, as the other grass parakeets seem to love to bathe. Is not bathing harmful to them?


With regard to the title of this thread, I am also confused about my Rosys and flying.

The original owner said they were in the cage their whole lives, and that the male got out once and she had to fetch him. They are both skittish birds, as I have heard that wild ones are, but the male seems particularly traumatized when he sees my hands. Both of them watch to see where my hands are at all times. Neither of them want to come out of the cage on their own, when Ive left the door open. Their wings are uncut.

They came in a 24"Lx18"Wx30"H cage. I want to eventually get them into an indoor aviary 10'Lx3'Wx6'H, or such. I want to eventually let them fly supervised in the morning and at night. I eventually want to turn an extra room into a bird room where they have a cage, but can also fly in the room, undisturbed.

Im worried about the male, mostly, but for both of them , because they seem so skittish. Since theyre lateral fliers, Im worried about them gaining speed and smashing into walls or things (I know about covering windows and mirrors), if they get spooked.

I thought Id get a smaller china cabinet and convert it into an intermediate bird cage. Give them more room (56"Lx16"Wx82"H), but not so much room that they can gain too much speed while flying.
But Im not so sure that they cant gain enough speed in those dimensions, to smash into glass, plexiglass, or metal mesh?

So then i thought, well since theyre new fliers, shouldnt they start with something softer than that in case they run into it? Either canvas or bird netting? Something that will give a bit, if they hit it?
I did see somewhere where a person used some kind of netting and they said their bird got caught in it, but Im not sure of the bird or size of the netting. If the netting is 1/2", and pulled taut as the siding, wouldnt that prevent their foot from getting tangled?

As much as Ive bonded hard and love these guys, I also feel its extremely frustrating owning a bird, because it seems like every miscalculation could cause them great injury or death.

 

[Rozalka]

Welcome to the forum! I've had Bourkes for 3 years and these parrots generally don't like bathing. I hung a bath and I've seem only once when one of them was wet.
The first time when I let out them was in the evening, I did it when they started to fly in the cage. I don't know they had let out before, but for one of my Bourkes this fly seemed to be first. I didn't secure walls and all was ok. They see little better in the dark than other parakeets (Bourkes have bigger eyes). If you want to secure the walls, you can of course, but here I won't help you.

 

[MonicaMc]

You might try hanging wet greens as a way to bathe.

At minimum, I would recommend a larger cage, but not a china cabinet.


A bird that is scared will feel safer if they have a way to escape. If you can get them to accept millet or seeds from your hands that may help.

 

[SailBoat]

Welcome to Parrot Forums!

Birds that did not fledge when they were young need to relearn how to. Without their being comfortable with being on your finger(s), hand or arm, it becomes very difficult to teach them how to fly. See I Love Amazons - ... at the top of the Amazon Forum, highlighted in light blue. This very large Thread (well over 30 Segments) targets Loving and Living with Amazons, but the information is helpful with near all Parrots. Look for the Segment regarding Refledging an Older Amazon. That segment will provide you answers to many of your questions.

As stated above, you really need to be able to have them comfortable being with you and on you to use that method. Getting to that point requires developing their trust that being on and around you is a safe place. Only good things happen with humans are around.

Regarding hands and arms. Parrots commonly do not see our Heads and arms as being attached. They are more likely to see them as a variation of a snake. So, as part of developing a Trust (bond), its that only good things happen when Humans are around.

Hope this gets you started.

 

[EllenD]

Welcome to the Community! Please do not ever to hesitate to ask any questions you might have!

As far as your cage goes, yes, it's too small for 2 Bourke's, as Monica already stated, at a minimum you need a larger cage ASAP. A really good rule for any species of parrot is buy as large a cage as you can afford...that being said, their current cage isn't giving them near enough room. I don't know what their toy/activity situation is, but make sure that they have lots and lots of different toys to play with, and different activities to keep them busy, like foraging activities, since they are inside their cage a lot of the time.

I also agree that converting a China Cabinet, while very innovative and great to do for some reptile vivariums, is not adequate for a parrot cage. What you're talking about wanting for your 2 Bourke's is called a "Flight Cage", and is a wonderful idea for a pair of Bourkes. Flight-Cages are inexpensive, don't take-up a ton of room, and will allow for a ton of different toys, different types/materials of perches, different foraging activities, AND will allow for your 2 Bourke's to get used to using their wings very quickly, as they either have to fly from perch-to-perch, or climb up the bars. If you put your 2 in a good-sized Flight-Cage, they would become better fliers in no time at all. I have a Prevue-Hendryx Flight-Cage in the walkout-floor of my house that houses my retired breeder Budgies (only 5 of them now, the rest went to a sanctuary last year), and they absolutely love it. They're constantly flying/jumping/moving/playing/hanging etc. And I believe someone on here, maybe Itzjbean, actually has a double flight-cage for her Cockatiel that she purchased on Amazon.com, and she recently posted the link for someone else, and they bought it as well. It comes in single or double size, and even the double-sized one cost less than $150 if I remember correctly...Or, you can usually find very nice, pre-owned Flight-Cages on places like Craigslist, eBay, etc. extremely cheaply. People typically just want to get the cages out of their homes for space, lol. But that's definitely the way to go, not converting a china cabinet or any other type of furniture...

As far as their flying goes, I too agree that it sounds like they never properly fledged, I don't know their history or anything about their breeder, but when a bird doesn't properly fledge, or they are locked inside a cage for 3 years without coming out, they have to actually learn/re-learn how to fly. And this is going to involve some crashes...I took in 3 baby American Budgies last month who were between 2-3 weeks old (long story, someone let their birds breed and then said "whoops, now what do I do?") to hand-feed/hand-raise them, and all 3 of them just fledged last week at different points. And even though I've hand-raised many baby birds and watched many of them fledge, it's always anxiety-causing. But as Sailboat mentioned, it's going to be difficult for you to try to do much training of any kind since you can't handle them at all...And the last thing you want to do is to have to chase them all around the room with a towel right now since you're trying to hand-tame them. Nothing will set hand-taming back more-quickly than chasing a non-tame bird around a room with a towel...

That's why the Flight-Cage is a really good way for you to start this process...You need a larger cage anyway, and a flight-cage will allow your birds to re-learn how to fly/balance/land etc. without you having to chase them all around with a towel to round them up. And you can easily do hand-taming sessions in a flight-cage, as they have many doors all over them, on the front and on both ends/sides, as they usually come with 2 large doors and then multiple smaller doors for nest-boxes (they are often used by breeders who practice "community breeding", not a good practice, but that's what the little doors are for). So that's the best advice I can give you right now, get them a nice, large flight-cage so that they can figure out the flying, and you can then work on the hand-taming without setting yourself back over and over again...

 

[buurd]

Welcome to the forum! I've had Bourkes for 3 years and these parrots generally don't like bathing. I hung a bath and I've seem only once when one of them was wet.
The first time when I let out them was in the evening, I did it when they started to fly in the cage. I don't know they had let out before, but for one of my Bourkes this fly seemed to be first. I didn't secure walls and all was ok. They see little better in the dark than other parakeets (Bourkes have bigger eyes). If you want to secure the walls, you can of course, but here I won't help you.

Thanks. Rozalka.

I'm so glad you're experienced with Bourke's. Maybe we can start up Bourke's group? I've read about all I can about Bourke's , but there is not much out there. Im keeping bookmarks so that hopefully I can set a library up. They're the odd guy out when it comes to grass parrots, so I always have to double think some of the advice I read.

Im glad to see they arent doing anything unusual, by not bathing. I thought maybe they needed it to help with self-preening, because they dont preen each other. They have clean vents, so I guess I dont need to obsess over it.

That's a great idea about eventually letting them out in the evening, to see how they handle flying. After theyve practiced a deal in the flight cage, I can hope it will go more smoothly in the PM.

Im not sure what you mean about securing the walls? How do you secure the walls of a room? Or did you mean the cage?

 

[buurd]

You might try hanging wet greens as a way to bathe.

At minimum, I would recommend a larger cage, but not a china cabinet.


A bird that is scared will feel safer if they have a way to escape. If you can get them to accept millet or seeds from your hands that may help.

Thanks for the reply ,MonicaMc.

That's a great idea. I'm going to try hanging wet greens for them and see if they go for it, with the water. When i misted over the cage, they looked at me like, Wut? :34: But if I hang the wet greens away from them, they'll have to seek it out, on their own terms, which is better.

 

[buurd]

Welcome to Parrot Forums!

Birds that did not fledge when they were young need to relearn how to. Without their being comfortable with being on your finger(s), hand or arm, it becomes very difficult to teach them how to fly. See I Love Amazons - ... at the top of the Amazon Forum, highlighted in light blue. This very large Thread (well over 30 Segments) targets Loving and Living with Amazons, but the information is helpful with near all Parrots. Look for the Segment regarding Refledging an Older Amazon. That segment will provide you answers to many of your questions.

As stated above, you really need to be able to have them comfortable being with you and on you to use that method. Getting to that point requires developing their trust that being on and around you is a safe place. Only good things happen with humans are around.

Regarding hands and arms. Parrots commonly do not see our Heads and arms as being attached. They are more likely to see them as a variation of a snake. So, as part of developing a Trust (bond), its that only good things happen when Humans are around.

Hope this gets you started.

Thank you, Sailboat.

I'll be reading that Amazon thread , asap. And the refledging part, for sure.

From what I've read so far on Bourke's, if not hand raised, they are skittish; and dont like to be touched, even when hand raised. They will land on your head, or shoulder possibly, but they dont like much human contact, otherwise. That's ok, if that's their thing. I just wish we could get to a place where they are ok with me, all the time.

When I sing to them or mimic bird sounds, they grind their beaks and close their eyes, fluff up a little under their beaks, especially the male, and especially in the evenings.

They stretch their wings and they drink water and eat in front of me. So they seem comfortable. But they absolutely dont want my hands by their cage. I tried to rest them on the opposite side of the cage from where they were, and they flew over and made a ruckus.

I figured they saw them as snakes, too. So Ive been making sure that they see me grooming myself with them. Fixing my hair, touching my face. To make them comfortable, Ive been holding them out of their sight range. They will look me in the eye then. If they can see them, they will watch them and be anxious.

Ive read Im not supposed to ever put my hands in the cage, but I have no other way to clean the cage, because they dont come out. I can do the pan part without putting my hands in, but not the cleaning up in the corners and sides of the cage. So, i talk to them and sing and stuff while Im cleaning up. I want to do a thorough deep cleaning of the cage, and take it apart, but I know that will freak them out. Is there any way to do this that I havent considered, maybe?

They know the hands bring them food, water, tasty greens and keep their cage clean daily. As well as bring them millet every so often. Having them eat millet from my hand seems like a pipe dream, right now :05:

 

[buurd]

Welcome to the Community! Please do not ever to hesitate to ask any questions you might have!

As far as your cage goes, yes, it's too small for 2 Bourke's, as Monica already stated, at a minimum you need a larger cage ASAP. A really good rule for any species of parrot is buy as large a cage as you can afford...that being said, their current cage isn't giving them near enough room. I don't know what their toy/activity situation is, but make sure that they have lots and lots of different toys to play with, and different activities to keep them busy, like foraging activities, since they are inside their cage a lot of the time.

I also agree that converting a China Cabinet, while very innovative and great to do for some reptile vivariums, is not adequate for a parrot cage. What you're talking about wanting for your 2 Bourke's is called a "Flight Cage", and is a wonderful idea for a pair of Bourkes. Flight-Cages are inexpensive, don't take-up a ton of room, and will allow for a ton of different toys, different types/materials of perches, different foraging activities, AND will allow for your 2 Bourke's to get used to using their wings very quickly, as they either have to fly from perch-to-perch, or climb up the bars. If you put your 2 in a good-sized Flight-Cage, they would become better fliers in no time at all. I have a Prevue-Hendryx Flight-Cage in the walkout-floor of my house that houses my retired breeder Budgies (only 5 of them now, the rest went to a sanctuary last year), and they absolutely love it. They're constantly flying/jumping/moving/playing/hanging etc. And I believe someone on here, maybe Itzjbean, actually has a double flight-cage for her Cockatiel that she purchased on Amazon.com, and she recently posted the link for someone else, and they bought it as well. It comes in single or double size, and even the double-sized one cost less than $150 if I remember correctly...Or, you can usually find very nice, pre-owned Flight-Cages on places like Craigslist, eBay, etc. extremely cheaply. People typically just want to get the cages out of their homes for space, lol. But that's definitely the way to go, not converting a china cabinet or any other type of furniture...

As far as their flying goes, I too agree that it sounds like they never properly fledged, I don't know their history or anything about their breeder, but when a bird doesn't properly fledge, or they are locked inside a cage for 3 years without coming out, they have to actually learn/re-learn how to fly. And this is going to involve some crashes...I took in 3 baby American Budgies last month who were between 2-3 weeks old (long story, someone let their birds breed and then said "whoops, now what do I do?") to hand-feed/hand-raise them, and all 3 of them just fledged last week at different points. And even though I've hand-raised many baby birds and watched many of them fledge, it's always anxiety-causing. But as Sailboat mentioned, it's going to be difficult for you to try to do much training of any kind since you can't handle them at all...And the last thing you want to do is to have to chase them all around the room with a towel right now since you're trying to hand-tame them. Nothing will set hand-taming back more-quickly than chasing a non-tame bird around a room with a towel...

That's why the Flight-Cage is a really good way for you to start this process...You need a larger cage anyway, and a flight-cage will allow your birds to re-learn how to fly/balance/land etc. without you having to chase them all around with a towel to round them up. And you can easily do hand-taming sessions in a flight-cage, as they have many doors all over them, on the front and on both ends/sides, as they usually come with 2 large doors and then multiple smaller doors for nest-boxes (they are often used by breeders who practice "community breeding", not a good practice, but that's what the little doors are for). So that's the best advice I can give you right now, get them a nice, large flight-cage so that they can figure out the flying, and you can then work on the hand-taming without setting yourself back over and over again...

Thank you, EllenD.

I read that the ideal amount of space for Bourke's is 10ft in length, 3-4Wide and about 3-4ft in height. They are lateral fliers, they walk on the ground, and they dont climb.

So the thought was to take out the back of the china cabinet and add another 2 or 3 feet to round it out into a wider flight cage. I thought maybe 56" would be an intermediate length to learn to fly until they get into a proper size aviary. They dont climb or chew, so they would want a great deal of space to walk the bottom of the cage. Perches, dishes , feeders, toys, water, branches and lamps can all be installed inside or over the cabinet. It's bird-safe wood, and painted in bird-safe non-toxic chalk paint and waxed,with no unsafe metals. The glass front would be replaced with cleaned 1/2" metal cloth, or thin, bendable, obscured, plexiglass.

A flight cage is more practical, though! Thank you so much for the advice, EllenD. I think I found a double.

I dont want them to breed, so Im not going to put nesting boxes in. I read that that is a good contraception technique, and also putting in a nesting box with fake eggs. Im not sure which is better. Id think theyd figure out that the eggs are fake though, after a while. Right now, I saw the male has tried to feed the female a couple of times while sitting on a perch together; but both times she stretched out taller than him and told him off and he cooled his jets immediately;p

So a double flight cage is about 60"L 21"W 40"H. My concern is, that I want it up high enough that my dog walking through the room cant get at it. Theyll eventually have their own room to walk in, that she cant get in. She's not that tall, but shes a jack russell, so I make sure she cannot outsmart me, by being extra safe with the birds. Right now they are out of her reach, in my bedroom. However, the birds do seem calm with her when shes in the room, and Ive taught her not to stare at them or bark. They must know she cant get to them.

I want them out of the Perview cage, asap. They can fly down to the bottom and then up again to a perch, but they cannot fly laterally. I just wish the male could learn how to fly in a bounce house :05:

 

[Rozalka]

Im not sure what you mean about securing the walls? How do you secure the walls of a room? Or did you mean the cage?

Sorry, I read your post again and I had misunderstood you. I thought you meant something other:smile005:. Nobody secures walls. Sorry that's my mistake

 

[wrench13]

Rozalka - stop with the China cabinet already! Break down and get these guys a proper flight cage and sell the China cabinet on e-may or Craigs list as what it is.

 

[MonicaMc]

From what I've noticed, bourkes don't really allopreen like other parrots do. Some may, but perhaps not many? Which may help explain some of their behaviors.


Some bourkes may also enjoy "sun bathing", which is quite comical when they are trying to do so with a lamp! (regular household lamp)


And they do seem most active at dawn and dusk, more so than other species of parrots.

 

[Rozalka]

Rozalka - stop with the China cabinet already! Break down and get these guys a proper flight cage and sell the China cabinet on e-may or Craigs list as what it is.

Are you sure this message is to me? I don't have the China cabinet.

 

[buurd]

From what I've noticed, bourkes don't really allopreen like other parrots do. Some may, but perhaps not many? Which may help explain some of their behaviors.


Some bourkes may also enjoy "sun bathing", which is quite comical when they are trying to do so with a lamp! (regular household lamp)


And they do seem most active at dawn and dusk, more so than other species of parrots.

I wonder if they are the only parrots that dont allopreen?
Are any other parrots from dry places?
Do any parrots dust-bathe?

Theyre active at dawn and dusk, I can confirm. My guys eat at both times, and whenever; But really seem to like to chow down at night, before they go to sleep.

Theyre also prone to night frights, so I keep a nightlight on, and keep their cage covered enough to let the light shine in on the other end of the cage.

 

[MonicaMc]

The other grass parakeets? Rosellas. Australian Ringnecks.

I'm not sure if there are any species of parrots that dust bath, but some might ant? Also known as "anting". Not sure how many parrot species may do that though...


I used to have bourkes... my last one went around the age of 19, give or take a year. Ones I had were rehomes, older birds.

 

[buurd]

The other grass parakeets? Rosellas. Australian Ringnecks.

I'm not sure if there are any species of parrots that dust bath, but some might ant? Also known as "anting". Not sure how many parrot species may do that though...


I used to have bourkes... my last one went around the age of 19, give or take a year. Ones I had were rehomes, older birds.

She's a beauty So youve got to be a font of info on Bourke's, then --19 years worth!

I fell in love with the natural & natural split Bourke's, but I ended up rehoming two rosy opalines, by chance. I was immediately in love with their little faces and personalities; they could be any color and I dont give a fig, theyre so precious.

SaveSave​

 

[MonicaMc]

I got her when she was 5-7 years old... along with her parents.... she died when she was 18-20... aka 19, give or take a year. So, 13 years.


I could honestly care less about rosey bourkes! Not a fan of pink (unless it's a galah! ) but the normal bourkes? Even a male? Gorgeous! *IF* I were to get a rosey, it would need to be blue, green or white! Wouldn't mind a violet, either!

Like the blue rosy on this page
http://grassparrots.free.fr/bourkes'p/Coljon Blue 2010 cd_jpg_view.htm

There used to be a great website out there that showed all the unique bourke mutations and some of them were absolutely stunning! Unfortunately, it's gone now... and a quick search, I'm only able to pull up two images from that site... one blue opaline, one green opaline.


I don't have any bourkes right now, but I do miss hearing their tweets and chirps or listening to them fly! They really are hidden gems! (regardless of color!)

 

[buurd]

"Gem" is the word I used in my post and deleted it, because Im new here and dont want to give the idea that I think of these guys as decorations. But they are absolutely "gems." They remind me of jewels. The pebble-looking gray/brown feathers with the pink is beautiful. I appreciate it, but if they were butt-ugly, Id still love them. I was surprised to learn that , even though i was attracted in part by Bourke's looks, that aspect falls away as soon as you look in their sweet black eyes. The male has started mimicking my song to him. He'll sing it once a day, seemingly random, lol

That said, they do come in some really pretty combinations, And Im a sucker for blue feathered birds, so I do love some bright blue in the feathers. The yellow, and overlapped yellow feathers that produce the green and lavender feathers are gorgeous, too. I love the scalloping on the wings.

I like that they have some wild/normal feathers. Lutinos & Rubinos aren't my cup of tea.

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[GaleriaGila]

I am really enjoying this thread. It's gratifying to see you learn and reach out and prepare yourself to take care of these gems.
Read, ask, read more, ask again... we'll help you!

 

[buurd]

I am really enjoying this thread. It's gratifying to see you learn and reach out and prepare yourself to take care of these gems.
Read, ask, read more, ask again... we'll help you!

Thank you so much, GaleriaGila; that means a lot to me.

I do have a lot more reading to do. And a whole lot of questions to ask

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