Eagle scratch himself so he bleeds

[Tralala]

My budgie scratches himself over the right ceres so much that he bleeds. My thought was that it may be mites so took him to the vet. But they found nothing wrong. Got him a treatment for mite just to be sure. Also washed everything in chlorine. For at couple of weeks after things looked to be ok. But then he started scratching again. This has happend before and after the vet. Things is ok for a week or two, then he start again until he bleeds. Last night he had smeard his whole face with blood.

He is in good mood and health otherwise. Some diarea from time to time. Don't know why. May be his diet. He eats seed, live herbsplants and apple. Tried giving other fruits and vegetables, but it dosnt seems to touch them. He also get vitamins in the water.

Anyone have any clue what's wrong? It's terrible to watch the little guy like this.

 

[LaManuka]

Hello and welcome aboard. Oh your poor little guy, he must be in quite a bit of discomfort!

What part of the world are you in? We may be able to help you find another vet, I’m not sure if your current one is a specialist bird vet but I think you need a second opinion and soon.

I hope you’re able to get some help for your little one!

 

[Allee]

Welcome to the forums! I’m sorry your little budgie is going through this. Could you tell us a little more about him? How old is he, how long have you had him, is he your only bird? Habitual plucking in budgies is uncommon but it can happen.

I agree with the above post, I would definitely find a certified avian vet and have a thorough exam done including blood panels, the symptoms sound serious and there must be an underlying cause.

When you clean your budgies cage with chlorine everything should be rinsed well and completely dry before you return your little guy to the cage. I would watch your budgie’s diet very closely until you are able to resolve his health issues, the diarrhea and itching could be symptoms of a food allergy, make sure all the vegetables and herbs are safe for parrots and wash them really well before feeding. Apples are safe as long as you remove the seeds and core of the apple, the seeds are toxic.

Best of luck with your little one. Please keep us updated.

 

[SailBoat]

Not sure what may be causing the issue. But, consider rounding the ends of your Parrots toe nails. Not talking about reducing length only turning the sharp ends to rounded.

 

[EllenD]

I don't know where you live in the world either, but it sounds to me like the Vet that you took your Budgie to was not an Avian Vet at all, but rather just an Exotics Vet who treats all types of animals/pets, and doesn't really know anything about parrots and their illnesses...Did they actually run any tests when you took him to the Vet, like taking a swab/culture from his nostrils and around his beak and eyes and sending it off for testing, or at least looking at it under their microscope in their office? If not, then you need to find an actual Avian Vet if possible, and we can possibly help you do that because there is a worldwide search tool here on the forum that is very good and only gives you Avian Vets.

***Also, question for you...What medication did you give him to treat possible Mites? Did you give it to him on your own, or did the Vet give it to him? Was it an injection/shot with a needle or was it given to him some other way? ****

The reason I'm asking is because most Avian Vets won't ever treat a bird for Mites or other parasites unless they positively see them from swabs/cultures they take from the bird, especially a little Budgie, because ALL of the medications they use to treat Mites are very harsh poisons, and if they don't find any Mites then it's not worth risking giving them the poison...

***Also, how clean do you keep his cage and the room his cage is in? How often do you scrub his entire cage out? And do you always you Chlorine Bleach to do it?***

He could actually be allergic to something in his cage or room, and they are ALL very sensitive to Bleach, and unless you rinse their cages very, very well to remove all of the Bleach smell, that can make them sick as well...If there is a lot of dust, feathers, seed-shells, etc. in his cage or in the room he's in this can also cause him great allergies and constant itching...

And also, if he's at all molting or has any Pin-Feathers coming in around his beak/eyes/Cere then this will cause him to itch as well...

***The other thing you need to worry about is an Upper Respiratory Infection, and/or a Sinus Infection, and if the Vet didn't take a swab from his nostrils and run cultures on it at a lab to rule-out an infection, then this could likely be the issue as well, which will only get worse and worse. So this is another reason you need to find a new Vet who is specifically an Avian Vet to take him to...If it's possible for you to do so...

 

[Tralala]

No, the vet was no specialist in birds. She took a feather sample and checked it under a microscope. No idea what the medicine is called, but it was the kind that normally are used for cats and dogs. I gave it to him myself. A drop in the neck. Where is that search tool for vets? I live in Norway and no vets around here even mention birds on their sites.


His cage is in the living room. I clean the cage once a week. It does get a little messy with seed-shells at the bottom of the cage after a few days. Didn't think that could affect the bird. I'll remove that more often and see if that helps.
I only used bleach the one time to kill any mites. I usually only use hot water.
I have only the usually toys in the cage bought at a animal shop. He love his balls.


I said he could be ok for a few weeks. But now after thinking about it, he has been pretty good now for a couple of months. Time really fly. And I first noticed the extreme itching in the beginning of November.


He is very picky in the diet. He only eat a few of the seed types in the seed-mix. As I said I have tried to give him different food, but the only thing I have seen him eat are apple. He also chew on the herbs, but I have no idea if he actually eat any of it. He even don't care for millet!



And he is little over three years old.

 

[Amsterdam]

welcome to you both first of all could it be something is stuck in his right cere that irritates him?, i know other members already said to visit a vet specialized in this type of birds but i really would recommend that too since your friend isnt comfy at all now.

 

[Jen5200]

So sorry to hear that your little guy is not comfortable. Here is a link that might help you find an avian vet, I’m not sure what other searches are good to use in Europe. https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803

 

[EllenD]

Okay, well it's VERY IMPORTANT that you NEVER give him any type of medication for parasites that isn't made specifically for birds, and that is very carefully dosed for your Budgie based on how many grams he weighs...I'm actually quite surprised that your Budgie is still alive if you actually put a spot-medication on his skin that is dosed for dogs/cats. You got very, very lucky with that one.

****Here's the deal with ALL Anti-Parasitic medications...99% of them are literally Poisons (the only ones that are not are any of the "natural" medications for treating parasites, which are typiclly contain Eugenol (Clove Oil), and they are for treating only Fleas and Ticks, they won't do anything for any species of mites...

Birds are extremely sensitive to EVERYTHING, and when it comes ot Poisons they often die if they aren't given the EXACT AMOUNT that is carefully calculated based on the weight of the bird, and typically Avian Vets will NEVER give any bird/parrot any type of Anti-Parasitic Medications topically (on their skin) at all because ALL of those "Drops" you can buy to treat dogs and cats for Fleas, Ticks, Mites, etc. are Poisons that are meant to be absorbed through the skin OVER-TIME, which is extremly dangerous to give to a bird due to their small size and low-weights. The other issue (you don't remember the type of medication, but most of them fall into this category) is that most of those "Drops" that are meant to treat dogs and cats to treat and/or prevent Fleas, Ticks, and other Parasites including certain species of Mites will not treat ANY of the types of Mites that commonly live-on/effect birds...And if you did happen to give your Budgie a type of topical "Drop" medication/poison for dogs and cats that does treat any of the species of Mites that effect birds/parrots, then you are EXTREMELY LUCKY THAT HE DIDN'T DIE! The Anti-Parasitic medication that an Avian Vet would give your Budgie for most of the types of Mites that effect birds/parrots (the 2 most-common Mites that birds/parrots get are Feather-Mites and Scaly-Face Mites) is called "Ivermectin", and it's an extremely strong and toxic Poison that regularly kills many pet birds/parrots, rodents, reptiles/amphibians, etc. (this is a HUGE problem with Vets who are not Reptile Specialists but insist upon treating Reptiles, as their metabolisms are so, so slow that when given Ivermectin at all, 99% of the time they suffer in agony from the time they are given the Ivermectin up to as long as 2-3 months and then they die, usually from Kidney and/or Liver failure because their bodies just can't get rid of the Ivermectin)...

***When an Avian Vet properly and positively diagnoses a pet bird/parrot with either Scaly-Face Mites or Wing-Mites, the treatment is a single, one-time Injection of Ivermectin under the skin of the bird (a "Subcutaneous" Injection); the amount of Ivermectin they give the bird by injections is based solely on the weight of the bird...And here's where they have to be extremely careful and precise, because again, Ivermectin is an extremely strong and potent Poison, and if you give a bird, especially a little Budgie that typically weigh under 50grams, too much of a Poison, obviously they can easily and quickly die (if the Vet you saw found Mites on your Budgie's feathers then he/she probably has Feather-Mites; you can actually see them yourself without a Microscope if he/she still has them, just find a feather that has fallen-out in the bottom of her cage and then hold it up to a lightbulb and look right along the shaft of the feather, usually on the underside of the feather as opposed to the side of the feather that is facing outward when on the bird and that is seen, you'll be able to see the Feather-Mites sitting right up against the Feather Shaft).

So think about that, even the smallest breed of dog in the world weighs at least 1 pound, and assuming that the topical "Drops" that you bought and put on your Budgie's skin was for the smallest size/weight of dogs/cats, even if you only put a tiny little dab of the liquid-drops onto your Budgie's skin, it is an overdose. And that's assuming that it was even Ivermectin that you gave him, I'm assuming it is, as if it said that it was for treating "Mites" on dogs and cats, it's referring to either the species of Mites that causes dogs and cats to get Sarcoptic Mange (Scabies Mites), or it's the species of Mites that causes dogs and cats to get Demodex, and both of these are treated with Ivermectin...But once again, I'll say it again just to make sure you understand just how lucky you got, not only would a tiny little dab of the liquid Poison insiide a single-tube of those "drops" you put on dogs and cats skin overdose a little Budgie (or most species of parrots/birds for that matter, even large Macaws and Cockatoos), but the fact that you put it on your bird's skin topically like you do with other animals could have also killed him, but it would have been a situation where he would have suffered greatly for days to weeks to even months before his Kidneys shut-down, because those "drops" of Poison are meant to absorb slowly over-time into their skin and blood-stream in order to not only kill any active parasites the dog or cat has at the time it's applied, but to also prevent new parasites from infesting the dog or cat, and a little Budgie who weighs less than even 50grams will not be able to constantly be filtering the Poison out of their bloodstream, and will typically result in the bird dying from Kidney failure. This is why Avian Vets treat birds/parrots with a single-injection of Ivermectin that is the exact dose that will be safe for the bird based on it's weight, rather than applying any types of Poisons topically that will be absorbed continually over-time, which will cause their Kidneys to fail...

****All of that being said, the search-tool that Jen posted in her reply above is a World-Wide search tool for Avian Specialist Vets and CAV's (I'm assuming it's the same link that is often posted on this forum, if so then it has found Avian Specialists all over the world for people, from all over the Middle-East to the UK to Australia to Canada to Asia and everywhere else...So if there is an Avian Specialist Vet or CAV in Norway, it will find them for you!

****So just to be clear here, is your Budgie still currently scratching himself like he did when the Vet found the Feather-Mites on him? Or has he stopped? I couldn't tell from what you said about "it's been months now", so I wanted to make sure this is still an active problem...WHEN DID YOU PUT THOSE DOG/CAT DROPS ON HIM? DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!! You need to use the tool to see if you have an Avian Vet anywhere near you, if so then make an appointment ASAP for him...JUST DON'T PUT THOSE DROPS OR ANY OTHER MEDICATIONS ON HIM AGAIN!

I'm a bit confused about what's going on, because you first said that the Vet found no signs of Mites but that you medicated him anyway with the dog/cat Anti-Parasitic "drops" that you bought and did yourself, but then you said that the Vet found Mites on his feathers under his Microscope...If that's the case, then I don't know why the Vet wouldn't have treated him right then and there in the office with an injection of Ivermectin, which is the standard of care for a bird/parrot with Feather-Mites...If that Vet actually told you to just go out and buy an Anti-Parasitic drop for dogs and cats and to topically put it on your bird's skin, then that's a HUGE problem and that Vet needs to be stopped from giving out those directions, because he's going to kill a lot of pet birds; I'm still shocked that your Budgie did't die within a few weeks to a month of you putting that stuff on his skin, or at least become very, very sickly for a long period of time due to Kidney failure. So one more time, if your Budgie is acting the same way again then he probably does have Feather-Mites again (if the Vet did in-fact find Mites on his feathers), and he's going to need to be treated for them, but not with ANY medications you buy yourself, especially those meant for animals/birds other than parrots (poultry birds like chickens and ducks, quail, chukkars, Doves/Pigeons, etc. not only weigh more than a little Budgie, but they do have a lot of physiological differences as well)...

In the meantime, there is a reason, or rather a "source" of these Feather Mites that is causing your Budgie to keep getting them...Like I wrote above, if you can find a new/fresh feather in the bottom of his cage that has recently fallen-out of him, you can hold the feather right up in-front of a lightbulb and look for little, tiny dots along the shaft of the feather, as well as in-between each, individual little plume coming out of the shaft that all come together to form the feather as a whole...I would completely dismantle his cage, take every single toy, perch, ladder, swing, Cuttlebone, Mineral Block, food and water dishes/containers, the grate in the bottom, etc. out of the cage (just take everything out of his cage and take the cage apart) and then soak it in very hot water with some bleach, scrub everything very well, and then make sure you rinse everything until you cannot smell the bleach any longer...Then you need to vacuum all around where the cage is, the floor, etc. because there might be Feather-Mites all over the place, they're very small and you'd never see them.

 

[Tralala]

What I mean is that the vet checked for mites under a microscope, but she didn't find any. She then prescribed medicine just to be sure since she didn't find anything else wrong. The medicine is for cat's and dogs, but that's what was used since there is no mites medicine specifically for birds. Not that she new of here in Norway anyway.


After the "incident" he has also stopped scratching. What ever it was, he seems to have gotten rid of it. This is what happens every time. Bloody face, scratching end for a period. Can it be a problem area for new feathers? When I said over the ceres, I mean the borderline between the feathers and ceres. The ceres itself is fine. No sign of sickness.