Do you think parrots can be autistic?

[pycthedragon]

I have no idea where to put this, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section.

But I was thinking, do you think that parrots can be autistic?

Other behaviours related to human social and speech behaviour, such as dance, bereavement and stuttering were once believed to be exclusive to humans, before all of them have been suggested that parrots possess.

Considering that it is a social disorder that also affects speech in many cases, I wonder if birds, especially parrots, could exhibit autistic behaviours.

Just as a reminder, the big three things autistics have in common:
- repetitive behaviours
- intense obsessions with objects or subjects
- Difficulties with communicating among other beings

Have you ever heard of a parrot like that?

I have ASD my self, but I have a fairly moderate form, so I am independent and can take care of my lovebird <3

 

[Sterling1113]

I'm not entirely sure, but I had an ekkie for a short amount of time who had behavior that honestly reminded me of autistic behavior in humans.

Whenever he was stressed out, he would face a corner(if he could find one) and sway his head in a figure-eight motion, sometimes slowly, sometimes so quickly I worried he was going to hurt himself! And whenever he did it, he ignored everything. He wouldn't listen to you, nothing. You had to physically touch him to "snap him out of it". It reminded me of how some autistic children cover their ears and/or close their eyes and shake their head, as a way to block the input because they just can't handle it and it's immensely stressful on them. I have no idea where he learned the behavior but it didn't happen often, once we figured out how to read him before he resorted to the head-swaying.

 

[Phlox]

Display behaviors that we could interpret as related to human autism? I'd say yes, but a bird's brain is very different from ours. Some things we'd consider autistic -- like repetitive behaviors are actually normal for birds.

So can a bird have a mental defect or be neglected/abused into abnormal behavior, yes. But I'm not sure we want to anthropomorphise their actions. It's too easy to do already.

 

[SilverSage]

Very interesting! I married my husband right after his young nephew was diagnosed with Autism, but I a still learning. I dont know if it would be the same as it is in humans, but since birds are so very intelligent I would honestly be surprised if they DIDNT have a set of mental difficulties such as humans face. I would also believe other hyper-intelligent species such as apes, elephants, and whales may also face them. I hope that science continues to dig into understanding the animal (especially avian!) brain so we can better understand them!

 

[Dinosrawr]

They just recently identified a gene related to autism in zebra fish, so I don't doubt for one second that they can experience a disorder as such. Especially considering that they can self mutilate, experience depression, and can show other extreme mentality disorders that we see in humans. While they may not express it to the same degree as humans simply due to differences in genetics and behavioural characteristics, it's hard for me to ever displace the belief that animals aside from us can't experience any genetic disorder.

 

[khaiqha]

I pretty much think anything with DNA could have a mutation or genetic difference that would cause it to behave differently than other members of its species. That's why keeping birds can be so difficult. An odd behavior could be a symptom of disease, an allergy, a genetic defect, a learned behavior, or just that bird's quirky behavior.

Side note: my bird started doing that figure 8 motion with his head too. He does it at times when he wants something I take away, or right after I put him in the cage and he wants out.

 

[Betrisher]

That's a fantastic question and one that really bears thinking about! I think the mapping of human and other genomes is going to open up a huge amount of study and no doubt it will include those overlaps between animal genetics and our own. The ongoing study of ASD, especially in those areas where genetic influence plays a role, is also going to open up massive areas of interest, especially to educators and the families of ASD folk.

I think the notion of ASD being a spectrum of identifiable behaviours is the most important theory put forward in years and years. I have no doubt that the genetic component will become clearer as time goes on and studies become more focussed. If that's the case, then I reckon it's entirely possible that common elements between our own and animal DNA will show common 'disorders' between us all in the future.

NB. I don't for a minute believe ASD is necessarily a disorder! I think it's a 'type', for want of a better word, which enables an intensity of experience to the individual which might render him 'different' from his peers. Not less, mind, but different! Neurotypical people easily perceive that 'normal is best', but then they don't get to view the world through autistic eyes.

The descriptions my son gives me of his perceptions totally blow my mind! He has synaesthesia, perfect pitch, an eidetic memory and many other skills besides (eg. he can pick a whole bunch of four-leaved clovers in minutes). I've spent thirty-eight years helping him navigate a world filled with people who judge him harshly, yet it never ceases to amaze me how intensely he seems to experience beauty of all kinds. AND, the joy he gets from it is huge as well.

In those thirty-eight years, I've also watched hundreds of animals doing the things they do. Rather than guess that some animal behaviours could be as 'impaired' as that of ASD individuals, perhaps it could be that ASD individuals are as lucky as animals in that they can experience the world with a similar intensity? This is a theory that I've pondered and pondered on and I guess your question has prompted me to write it down for the first time ever. I hope it makes some sense to some of you? LOL! If not, then please don't flame me - I'm just a Mum trying to make sense of it all.

 

[pycthedragon]

Nope, I understand completely, and that's actually a pretty good analogy for some things. I wonder if the theoretical autistic birds would get as excited and filled with joy when indulging on their "interests" as I do. Although I think they might be harder to console, because they might not have as good control over their emotions as other birds. I wonder how their interactions with humans would be, too? Many times autistic people get closely attached to animals and prefer them over most people, maybe the bird gets the same way with people, haha. Birds are so interesting.

I know its a bit anthropomorphic, but I honestly believe that many intelligent species of bird and mammal are capable of many different possible disorders, and birds can definitely show the signs of psychological problems like depression and anxiety. It could be possible. I don't think people have done enough research on how similar birds are to humans. I heard there was one study done on the possibility of autistic behaviours in parrots, but I can't find it right now. Someone was saying that bowerbird behaviour is very autistic but I think that's a different scenario, because it could be that they just evolved to be that way.

It would be interesting to meet a parrot that was "autistic" I think. I'm sure it wouldn't be the same as in humans but it would be interesting to see.

On birdie brains being different, one of the most fascinating things about birds is that singing birds, social birds and smart birds like parrots often have some interesting similarities that humans do. Zebra finches, for example, can develop stuttering disorders, and there was a study done on parrots dancing that showed they can keep a (fairly) consistent beat to a song. It's really interesting stuff. I think that even though it's wired differently, the way that verbal communication and intelligence works in parrots and humans probably have a lot of things in common. Convergent evolution for the win!

Edit: I found the study! You have to download the PDF though: click here!

In summary, stereotypy in caged parrots was associated
with evidence of disinhibited response selection by the basal
ganglia. These results replicate findings using the same tasks
in autistic and schizophrenic patients, suggesting that stereotypy
in caged parrots involves similar mechanisms. This
conclusion suggests that (1) barren ‘standardized’ laboratory
housing may severely limit the validity of behavioral experiments,
(2) stereotypies in captive animals are not equivalent
to human OCD and should not be treated as such, (3) barren
or restricted environments may exacerbate stereotypy in
human clinical populations, and (4) stereotypy may be associated
with frustration and poor psychological welfare in
captive animals.

Definitely an argument for giving your parrot the most interactive environment you can, that's for sure!

 

[Betrisher]

See, I'm learning not to think of disorders as disorders, but rather as responses to environmental stimuli. We know, for example, that certain genes or combinations thereof enable a response to day-length and therefore to seasonal behaviours such as courting, mating and nesting. What if there's a gene (or combination of genes) that governs sensory stimulus/response? And, if there is such a gene, why should it be peculiar only to people or to birds or to horny toads? We already know that much of our (members of the Animal Kingdom) genetic material is shared. I have a feeling the degree of shared genetic material is going to turn out to be much larger than we could ever have imagined. That's just my suspicion.

So, if certain people respond to sensory overload with stereotypy, why wouldn't birds if they share the same determinant genes??? Why wouldn't dogs or cats or horses? Have you ever seen a horse that weaves? Or one that crib-bites? Or windsucks? All those behaviours remind me intensely of the stereotypic behaviours my son showed when he was a toddler and as yet unable to master his autistic responses.

Excitable dogs do similar sorts of things. They'll exhibit scratching behaviours with a hindleg even though there's no fleas. They'll race in circles 'just because'. They'll yap and yap and yap, often without any obvious reason. What if all these behaviours are simply stereotypies connected to sensory overload? The more I think about it, the more I think it's the case. What if 'talking' parrots are simply exhibiting echolalia in the same way autistic kids do? LOL! That'd be a crack-up! See, there's comfort and control to be had in the act of repeating things. Why shouldn't all species have that in common? Why would we assume it's only the 'superior' brains of humans that show such proclivities?

Getting back to the 'disorder' aspect of all this, what if none of it is 'disordered' behaviour, but is rather a set of advanced coping mechanisms for dealing with a more sophisticated depth of sensation? Remember: there's no longer any such thing as 'normal'!

PS. I forgot to add that overstimulation is as bad for parrots as it is for children. 'Lots of toys' doesn't qualify as 'overstimulation', though. 'Lots of toys' equals 'lots of aspects of the environment that the parrot can understand and control'. Overstimulation would be too much noise, too much light, too much movement, too much food, too much training etc etc etc.

 

[pycthedragon]

Honestly, overstimulation is pretty much bad for anything. hehe.

I don't really view it as "disordered" behaviour (I mean, I'm used to what I'm used to, and I'm sure that's what your son is used to as well). I don't think Cream would be an autie bird, but sometimes I see other birds and wonder if they have some things in common. Birds have always been a fascinating thing for me and I think the more and more I learn about them the more and more humanlike they become. I wish more people did neurological studies on birds, we could learn so much about how their brains work. They seem to have a lot more in common with humans than we once believed.

Personally it's the difference really between being a jack of all trades and being a specialist. Neither is perfect for everything but both are useful together.

 

[Birdman666]

ACTUALLY, there is a more interesting twist to this little intellectual discussion.

And that is the fact that the methods used to train Alex to do what he did WERE ADOPTED and found to be very effective in teaching Autistic children...

One of the things the intellectual community is arguing about is whether or not based on this, their little bird brains have about the same capacity as a human autistic child... and they may in fact, be hard wired that way.

BIRD'S MOST DEFINITELY HAVE OCD. ESPECIALLY LARGE TOOS!!!

 

[Phlox]

ACTUALLY, there is a more interesting twist to this little intellectual discussion.

And that is the fact that the methods used to train Alex to do what he did WERE ADOPTED and found to be very effective in teaching Autistic children...

One of the things the intellectual community is arguing about is whether or not based on this, their little bird brains have about the same capacity as a human autistic child... and they may in fact, be hard wired that way.

BIRD'S MOST DEFINITELY HAVE OCD. ESPECIALLY LARGE TOOS!!!

See this makes sense to me. This isn't "disordered" behavior in a bird...it's normal bird behavior. It does look like human autism...and its super cool that we can use what Alex taught us to help kids.

 

[Birdman666]

Yeah, well, pooping on the floor isn't disordered behavior for a bird either, but IF YOUR KID'S DOING IT (and s/he's out of diapers) then that's kind of a problem... :11:

Just sayin'...

 

[Phlox]

Yeah, well, pooping on the floor isn't disordered behavior for a bird either, but IF YOUR KID'S DOING IT (and s/he's out of diapers) then that's kind of a problem... :11:

Just sayin'...

Well that sort of what I mean. A human isn't a bird and a bird isn't a human. We can learn from each other, but I think its important to remember the difference. I think over humanizing/anthropomorphizing animals is what gets them stuck in the merry-go-round of rehoming. People expect them to be something they just can't be and take it as a personal insult when the bird isn't like a "toddler" in any real way, since we're forever comparing them. (I do as a joke too..but I have an actual toddler and they are really different as I'm sure we all know)

I think I might be over sensitive to this right now. I have been going on CL, looking for a playstand (gave up, bought a new one) and there are SO many birds that need new homes for clearly BS reasons and it makes me sad. There are totally legit reasons to rehome birds, but some of these they clearly should have never gotten them in the first place.

But anyway, on topic actually, I think it's hoping birds will think like humans or expecting them to is really bad news. I don't think we should be quick to say a bird is autistic, when really, its just being a bird.

 

[pycthedragon]

That's true. I was referring more to just individual birds, but I think a lot of people will be quick to judge a poor birdie based on how it deals with things. Birds are different from humans, despite our similarities. A lot of people who take in birds may be biased by how they expect a bird to act, instead of how it really WOULD act, which is sad.

Still, even outside of that, I think that birds could have enough social differences from each other where one could be counted as a "Birdie autistic". It's not a bad thing, that's for sure. I just think that birds are capable of having autistic behaviour, in that they prefer to be left alone to their own devices and focus on small things as opposed to being a "jack of all trades". Who knows?

 

[Birdman666]

Having done rescue work for a number of years, I can tell you that there are a significant number of reasons for rehoming, but what mostly seems to happen is the novelty of parrot ownership wears off, and the work involved in parrot ownership is not insignificant...

You don't do the work you get behavior problems, and an area around your bird cage that is gross, smelly and attracts bugs.

Oh, and birds that do not get handled, do not stay tame, so IT bites.

(Some just bite harder than others.) IT may scream and pluck as well.

Get THIS THING out of my house...

Wanna know how many macaws I've gotten from precisely the above scenario? Probably a dozen!

Funny, they didn't scream or bite at my place... and we found them appropriate homes.

But that tends to be the pattern.

 

[pycthedragon]

That is so sad. Those birds sounds like they're depressed, bored or sick, not autistic. I don't understand why someone would bring a macaw into a home unless they were super ready for it. I think I'd be overwhelmed by both the bird's size and needs. I guess people think that birds are just super cool and forget that they live so long.

 

[Birdman666]

A lot of people have no idea what they are doing. It's an impulse purchase...

HEY, I DID A RESCUE REHOME ON A BABY GREENWING A FEW YEARS BACK.

A RICH COUPLE DECIDED TO DO THEIR "PARTY ROOM" IN A TROPICAL THEME, AND WHAT'S MORE TROPICAL THAN A MACAW, RIGHT?!

They picked the bird because he MATCHED THE CURTAINS PERFECTLY...

Turns out the bird expected to be let out of the cage and handled... No one told them that part. He also screamed bloody murder at times, especially when he wanted to be fed, or wanted attention... LIKE EAR SHATTERING first thing in the morning...

Turns out they also throw food. It doesn't stay on the inside of the cage.

And they POOP, A LOT!!!

THE LAST STRAW FOR THESE FOLKS WAS WHEN THEY HAD THE CAGE UP AGAINST ONE OF THOSE EXPENSIVE CUSTOM MADE CURTAINS (i.e. WITHIN BEAK RANGE.) The window sill was also within beak range.

WANNA GUESS WHY THEY CALLED ME?!

ABSOLUTELY TRUE STORY! Get THIS THING outta my house...

 

[Birdman666]

I totally would have kept that one myself, but someone else on that call claimed him...

But I ended up with my Maggie anyway, so it worked out just fine for all concerned!