Do they need a mate?

[skylala]

I Hijacked another thread asking this question and it wasn't answered there, but I am still curious so I would love to get peoples opinions.

I have a 2 year old male eclectus, so I understand these birds don't mate for life like other species already, but I still want to know if he should have a mate.

He is now coming up to the age of sexual maturity, and we have now adjusted the way we handle him by only touching his head, neck and feet so as to not send the wrong message to him.

Is it the best for his mental well-being to have a mate of his own species to be around? When you look at zoo's, it is unethical to house some animals individually due to their social needs and by law they must have others of their own species, or compatible species to be with, as it is important to their social life and mental well-being.

I never intended to ever have a second parrot, but as he is growing I am getting concerned over his hormones and never having any way to release those hormones as we can't desex our birds. On top of the hormone issue which I am very concerned about, I feel bad when he is left alone while we are out or at work.
I was reading a breeders website which had this warning,

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!

Many breeders sell parrots without making clear that, while these birds make fantastic companions, it is through the youngster period they are at their best. When the bird reachs adulthood the problems that come are simple yet can be devistating.

Humans invented celebacy for humans. We are not able to neuter parrots, so when parrots reach sexual maturity they need to breed.

If the bird has been brought up in a loving caring family without any feathered companions the chances are this bird most likely thinks it is a human. This is called imprinting. Sadly this results in parrots getting hormonal, stressed and in some cases aggressive. It can start plucking or even try to mate with a human. It is at this point some members of the family start to find the bird difficult to live with.

It is not long before the poor bird is sent to spend more and more hours in it's cage, or is found a new home. Sadly it is by this time that the birds brain is so messed up that it is no good for breeding.

The point is if you are thinking of getting a parrot for company, then please give a thought to it's future and factor in a partner at some point, well before the bird reaches maturity. You'll get twice as much affection and will have a well rounded and contented Parrot!

I know the difficulties non-desexed dogs can go through and I can very much see how this could be an issue for the birds. It just makes the poor animals miserable and potentially aggressive. I just want to do what will make the bird happiest.

The issue then, is.... I don't want to breed babies. There are far too many unwanted pets in the world and I don't have the experience or time to dedicate to that anyway. I know placing a male and female together will result in fertile eggs. I hope no one is offended by this, but would it be wrong to check the nest every day, and replace any eggs with fake ones, then destroy the real eggs?... The first day the embryo is just cells and it doesn't have any organs, so is it wrong to destroy it? Again I don't want to offend anyone with this suggestion, I just want to do what is best for the birds.

 

[Puck]

1) no they do not need mates ( in my opinion) In fact you will probably have a closer relationship to your bird if it doesn't have a mate.
2) birds can be real brats during adolescents (much like humans!) but tend to settle down as adults and can be just as good of a pet as they were as babies--it has much more to do with socialization and individual personality than anything else IMHO
3) there's nothing wrong with switching out eggs for fake eggs. Lots of people do it. Honestly I don't think people should breed birds unless they have a ton of knowledge about it. Fake eggs are just fine. But like I said above... They don't need a mate necessarily. I don't think too many people are worried about bird "abortion." I think even strong animal rights activists would rather see fertile eggs removed and replaced with fake eggs for the very reason that there are too many unwanted animals out there and you can't sterilize your bird. Plus a fertilized egg is not the same thing as a chick at all.

 

[Kiwibird]

In short, NO NO NO! He may enjoy a companion (preferably of same gender or of a non-sexually compatible species), but he should not be allowed to breed. Putting a male and female of the same species together will most likely result in babies. Baby parrots are extremely difficult to hand feed properly (and easy to kill if you are inexperienced), and parent raised babies are difficult to sell because of how 'wild' they are. You also loose your bird as a pet once they become a breeder. If you think a mature parrot is difficult to maintain a good relationship with, try a breeder bird!

There are plenty of people with sexually mature, perfectly well adjusted parrots. Plucking, screaming, biting ext... do not stem from celibacy, they stem from boredom, not enough human interaction, the owner not training the bird properly, and even allergies/illness. There are lots of ways to deal with parrots natural behaviors during the breeding season that do not require breeding them.

 

[skylala]

Thanks for the response!

How do you go about dealing with their hormonal issues, as they don't just disappear when they get older? Testosterone will always be an issue. Many people breed animals and continue to have strong relationships with them. I don't want to base this off anecdotes. If it is cruel to never allow an un-desexed male dog to breed, why is it not cruel to do that to a bird?

Could you perhaps buy a 'sex toy' for him, a stuffed teddy that looks like a female and the same size as one, and whenever he is being hormonal, send him to the teddy?..

 

[Kiwibird]

First, parrots are not at all similar to dogs. There is absolutely no comparison between the 2.

Second, hormonal behavior shouldn't be encouraged. That's not to say you should "punish" the bird for displaying it, but you certainly don't give them a sex toy! Things you can do is keep a consistent sleep/wake cycle (daylight changes trigger hormones), reduce fruit/up veg during the breeding season (i.e. limit sugars when they're hormonal), refrain from petting them during the breeding season, offer more shredding/chewing toys to keep them occupied/distracted and ignore ALL sexual displays. I am not sure about ekkies, but with amazons, their first few years as a sexually mature adult are the worst. Aggressive, mating dances, masturbation...basically they turn feral. If handled correctly, they will mellow out with age and it will become less of an issue as the years go by. Kiwi was a ball of hormones when we adopted him. We never encouraged his 'displays', kept him distracted, altered his diet, used caution when handling him (the aggression) and keep him on a year-round sleep/wake cycle. He has mellowed out dramatically, is a wonderful companion and no longer exhibits mating displays (though he does get a little cranky for a few weeks).

 

[skylala]

I understand birds are different to dogs, but testosterone is still testosterone.

I really appreciate your response and you have been very helpful I'd like to hear a few different opinions so I can get a better understanding of the situation, particularly from people who do have males and females together which remain as companion birds.

There are of course a lot of myths that get spread around from individual anecdotes and I just want to be as informed as possible. People still believe a lot of myths surrounding desexing dogs that have been proven false.

 

[AJBirds]

Sex & the Psitticine

Great article in my opinion.

 

[skylala]

Sex & the Psitticine

Great article in my opinion.

That was an awesome article, thanks! Loads of great information and tips. They also say the information is based on observations from apparently hundreds of parrots, so that's reassuring if it's true.

Most of the suggestions we were already doing so it's good I'm on the right track.

I am relieved to see that I shouldn't need a mate for him. I didn't really want another, I was only interested in giving him a better life.

I would still like to hear from others that keep males and females together and what their experience is like.

 

[Kyoto]

In my experience, giving a bird a mate is a bad idea. Breeding actually takes a lot out of them and diminishes their health, particularly for females. As someone who dealt with breeding lovebirds (by accident, not by choice), if I could go back I would have only had one lovebird. I had budgies and cockatiels as well, so he certainly wouldn't have been lonely. But the breeding season would pass and everyone would be fine. I lost a budgie to egg binding due to my lack of knowledge with preventing hormonal changes, so please don't take any risks and just enjoy your male and take the advice given. Getting another bird is not a bad idea if you have the time and resources, but please don't get one just for the purpose of breeding. You are giving him a better life by not encouraging him to breed in my opinion.

 

[Doublete]

You're not going to get many opinions from people that have males and females together as they are only breeding and don't consider their birds pets so wouldn't be active on forums. Sadly once birds start breeding they aren't pet quality anymore.

You are the only flock your bird needs.

 

[Derbyan]

So what about having a 2nd companion bird? As in, a 2nd bird that may or may not be from a different gender/species housed either in the same cage or separately. Would that help each of the birds cope a bit better with being left in the cage(s) while you're away at work or does it have little to no effect aside from making them bond to one another and less towards you?

 

[Zeithria]

I have seen many owners of various bird who think their bird needs to have a companion. As long as you are providing enough attention and love to your baby, that is all the companion they need

 

[Hawk]

I Hijacked another thread asking this question and it wasn't answered there, but I am still curious so I would love to get peoples opinions.

I have a 2 year old male eclectus, so I understand these birds don't mate for life like other species already, but I still want to know if he should have a mate.

He is now coming up to the age of sexual maturity, and we have now adjusted the way we handle him by only touching his head, neck and feet so as to not send the wrong message to him.

Is it the best for his mental well-being to have a mate of his own species to be around? When you look at zoo's, it is unethical to house some animals individually due to their social needs and by law they must have others of their own species, or compatible species to be with, as it is important to their social life and mental well-being.

I never intended to ever have a second parrot, but as he is growing I am getting concerned over his hormones and never having any way to release those hormones as we can't desex our birds. On top of the hormone issue which I am very concerned about, I feel bad when he is left alone while we are out or at work.
I was reading a breeders website which had this warning,

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!

Many breeders sell parrots without making clear that, while these birds make fantastic companions, it is through the youngster period they are at their best. When the bird reachs adulthood the problems that come are simple yet can be devistating.

Humans invented celebacy for humans. We are not able to neuter parrots, so when parrots reach sexual maturity they need to breed.

If the bird has been brought up in a loving caring family without any feathered companions the chances are this bird most likely thinks it is a human. This is called imprinting. Sadly this results in parrots getting hormonal, stressed and in some cases aggressive. It can start plucking or even try to mate with a human. It is at this point some members of the family start to find the bird difficult to live with.

It is not long before the poor bird is sent to spend more and more hours in it's cage, or is found a new home. Sadly it is by this time that the birds brain is so messed up that it is no good for breeding.

The point is if you are thinking of getting a parrot for company, then please give a thought to it's future and factor in a partner at some point, well before the bird reaches maturity. You'll get twice as much affection and will have a well rounded and contented Parrot!

I know the difficulties non-desexed dogs can go through and I can very much see how this could be an issue for the birds. It just makes the poor animals miserable and potentially aggressive. I just want to do what will make the bird happiest.

The issue then, is.... I don't want to breed babies. There are far too many unwanted pets in the world and I don't have the experience or time to dedicate to that anyway. I know placing a male and female together will result in fertile eggs. I hope no one is offended by this, but would it be wrong to check the nest every day, and replace any eggs with fake ones, then destroy the real eggs?... The first day the embryo is just cells and it doesn't have any organs, so is it wrong to destroy it? Again I don't want to offend anyone with this suggestion, I just want to do what is best for the birds.

To start off, you may get a variety of mixed emotions and answers to that question.

In reality however, a parrot as a pet/companion is not wise to "chose" it's mates. Reason being is Parrots are the type if animal that "chose it's own mate". You may pick 5, 10, 20 bird mates for your bird, it may not like or want to be around any of them. Then what are you going to do?

I spent time in South America, ( for company I worked for) and in spare time observed parrots and visited a unique rescue parrot facility. It's really amazing how parrots, ( Macaws and other species chose each other). The facility lets all parrots go back into the wild.

But watching this facility made me realize that my birds will never have that opportunity to chose their own mate for life. To live the wild as they were meant to be for. So I'm their mate, and have to treat and understand their individual moods and emotions.

It's a sad thing when you think about human greed for wild animals, to have as pets, when their is so many thousands that are looking for their first, second, third or even forth home. To breed more parrots, well , I'd rather keep my opinion towards that to myself, I'm not for it. But respect the continuance of the species, cautiously however.