Do I clip his wings?

[AkridChaos]

I apologize if this posts twice, my login timed out on me and the site glitched out on my phone, never showed my new post, so now I’m stuck retyping it all.

Alright Warbeak got his flight feathers in a few months ago. I decided to let him be flighted so he could learn how to properly fly, as the pet store never clipped him properly. He was so afraid of flight attempts because he’d go crashing into everything before falling to the ground. He wasn’t gliding down. He was just outright falling. He actually had his flight feathers and never attempted to fly until the day I had to get cleaning done, and he happened to see that dreaded mop. He braced himself for impact on the floor, but instead was flying a lot further than he expected and didn’t know what to do. So he just stopped, and landed on the floor. And turned to look at me with those expressions they give to say “What the heck just happened?!”

He slowly began realizing he could fly, and began terrorizing the household with “you’re not getting away from me! *flies on shoulder*” This I don’t mind at all honestly. I actually find it pretty cute. It was this weekend I had to seriously consider clipping him though, because he’s finally decided to abuse his flight privileges. I was cleaning in the bird room, and that’s when the chase began...

He’s always hated the little ones (Snowball/Lily parakeet/parrotlet), and it has made spending time with them difficult, as he gets mad and jealous and will misbehave at times. But I don’t have enough time in my day to spend time with both sets of birds separately, minimum two hours each. So I’ve learned to cope. Well, Warbeak finally decided “I’m going to fix them up good!” He decided to fly at Lily and chase her around the room. Naturally, this caused both of the little ones to freak out and panic, and start smacking into the walls and other various objects in the room. I went for Warbeak to put him away so I could make sure the little ones were alright. He wasn’t having it. He instantly began the chase again, beelining for Lily on their play stand. This caused more panic, Snowball smacked himself to the floor and left himself in a daze, and I had to act fast because Warbeak wasn’t stopping this chase, and Lily was starting to slow down fast. I took the towel in my hand and threw it over him, snatched him up and put him in his cage, and inspected the little ones. Lily was simply frightened and exhausted. Snowball was in such a daze that he hopped up on my hand (he’s terrified of hands) and let me baby him for a few minutes as I inspected him to make sure he was alright, then went to hang out by Lily. No birds were harmed during Warbeak’s shenanigans, but I don’t want to chance it happening again.

I have a room that is finally being painted upstairs that has always been the designated bird room, but I’ve decided only Lily and Snowball are going up there. But this doesn’t prevent the problem, as I’ve already said before I don’t have the time in my day to spend time with two sets of birds separately. I’m reluctant to clip Warbeak, I enjoy a flighted bird, and it’s good exercise for them, but he’s going to keep harassing the little ones at this point. At the very least it wouldn’t be forever clipped, only until the little ones age enough and the inevitable happens. But that’s a lot of time to be clipped still.

If there’s an alternative solution like being able to get them all to be nice to each other, I’m all ears (or in this case, eyes). Warbeak never even gave Lily a chance. He hated her since day 1. I think she just scares him with her plucked feathers appearance. And Snowball...well they ALMOST got along, but Snowball ruined that chance. They were sharing millet together peacefully, and I thought they would finally get along. Nope, Snowball decided he wanted the millet that was in Warbeak’s beak, and naturally Warbeak got mad, fluffed up all his feathers, and chased him away. Now his first instinct is scare Snowball away when he tries to be friendly. So I’m not sure any of them getting along is an option, and I’m back to the clipped wings option. I’ll listen to the advice the community gives and make my decision from that.

 

[Jottlebot]

Firstly, I love the name Warbeak, however you can't blame him for acting up to his name! You should have called him "Friendly" or "Lover of small birds"... I have a dog called Fubar so I know what I'm talking about!

In all seriousness though, I think there is training you can do to help your birds tolerate each other, but I think it's limited and I don't have any expertise on the process, although I'm sure others will. I feel the only real option if they were mine would be to keep them separate. It's inconceivable that one of them should get hurt.

Wing clipping would not be an option for me. I know you talked about Warbeak being a bit of a pain, but I don't believe he's chasing them to be naughty so if you solve the problem of him chasing them by clipping him I think you'll just have an unhappy unflighted bird, which is heartbreaking.

I know you only have 2 hours maximum to spend with your birds, by you have taken on 3 birds. Is there no way you can spend more time with them, or time in a different way so they don't have to be in their cages for 23 hours a day if you have to keep them apart? Is the bird room going to be bird safe? You could let your little 2 out in there for a good fly about and then spend a bit of time with them while WB is in his cage?

It doesn't sound very satisfactory I must admit, but I think clipping hides the problem, it doesn't solve it.

 

[AkridChaos]

I work anywhere between 8-14 hrs a day depending what goes on at work. I work 2nd shift, not first, so spending time with them gets difficult when I’m coming home past 4am and I’m waking up at 12, and getting ready for my 3pm start come 2. Generally my day goes where I’m spending as much time with them in the morning (12pm, they actually adapted their wake up time to mine, they hated waking up early and me going back to sleep). Then I get ready for work. And depending when I come home I spend more time with them. If it’s 11pm, play time until about 1am or a bit later depending how tired we get. If past 3am, little ones usually just fly a few laps around the room while Warbeak snuggles up in my hair. That goes on for about 30mins before they all get tired and look at me like “put me to sleep mommy...” Granted my schedule won’t always be like this. I think it’ll be just 8hrs 5 days a week work again come after 4th of July. But right now I have limited time to spend as much as I can with all three. And I do agree I don’t want to clip Warbeak, but I don’t want him terrorizing the little ones either. If anyone knows tolerance training tips for Warbeak with the little ones that would be great. I’m open to anything.

Edit: adding some stuff to respond to other parts of your comment. I don’t only spend two hours with the birds. Two hours is just the bare minimum I force myself to do if I’m working over 12hrs. They need out time, no matter how tired I am. It’s unfair to them if I can’t give them a minimum of two hours out. It’s not their fault my schedule got crazy shortly after getting Warbeak. I never expected it to get as crazy as it has. Regardless I have to give them time out of the cage to stretch their little wings. Two hours minimum is what I fight for on the long work days. On my normal schedule, two hours before work, and as long aa they want after work. Basically until they give me that look of “we’re tired mommy. Bed time?” Generally during play time I’m spending my undivided attention on Warbeak because he’s such a butt head if I don’t. I’ve tried including the two little ones but he bullied them away. With his newfound flight privileges if I put him on his cage and try to play with the little ones, he flies onto my shoulder and tries scurrying down my arms to get at them. And if I keep him in the cage... well, nonstop screaming. Like I said, playtime with the little ones can be difficult with him around. And I can’t simply put him in a separate room when I play with them. This gives more screams.

As to your question of if the new bird room will be bird safe: but of course lol.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I guess in the final analysis, it usually boils down to control. If you have a spirited/headstrong bird who needs to be controled (especially for others' safety)... *sigh... clipping is probably the ticket, at least until you've established that control. I have only the Rb, so his flighted attack sorties can be tolerated.
Maybe I should have named HIM Warbeak!

 

[YUMgrinder]

I was a believer in letting them fly, but then I lost my lovebird to an open door, Not her fault, completely mine but now I keep them all clipped. I'm just too afraid of them getting out. It is a death sentence here in Wyoming, cold winters, windy as all heck and little trees to find shelter. If I invested time in flight and recall training perhaps I would let them fly but I haven't done any of that. Again, my own fault....

 

[bill_e]

I was a believer in letting them fly, but then I lost my lovebird to an open door, Not her fault, completely mine but now I keep them all clipped. I'm just too afraid of them getting out. It is a death sentence here in Wyoming, cold winters, windy as all heck and little trees to find shelter. If I invested time in flight and recall training perhaps I would let them fly but I haven't done any of that. Again, my own fault....

I've pretty much made up my mind that Nike is getting clipped as soon as it get's warm and the doors and windows are open again. As much as I love to see her fly it's not worth the risk. Hopefully by fall she'll get her flight back and be able to enjoy flying next winter again.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I was a believer in letting them fly, but then I lost my lovebird to an open door, Not her fault, completely mine but now I keep them all clipped. I'm just too afraid of them getting out. It is a death sentence here in Wyoming, cold winters, windy as all heck and little trees to find shelter. If I invested time in flight and recall training perhaps I would let them fly but I haven't done any of that. Again, my own fault....

Recall training really doesn’t take much time, all you need to do is target train first and continue to lure them to hop on your hand until they come whenever you call them. If you feel your home isn’t safe for birds, though, recall training won’t fix that.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I was a believer in letting them fly, but then I lost my lovebird to an open door, Not her fault, completely mine but now I keep them all clipped. I'm just too afraid of them getting out. It is a death sentence here in Wyoming, cold winters, windy as all heck and little trees to find shelter. If I invested time in flight and recall training perhaps I would let them fly but I haven't done any of that. Again, my own fault....

I've pretty much made up my mind that Nike is getting clipped as soon as it get's warm and the doors and windows are open again. As much as I love to see her fly it's not worth the risk. Hopefully by fall she'll get her flight back and be able to enjoy flying next winter again.

The thing is, with flighted birds, doors and windows never get opened unless the birds are in their cage, or if you have screens (which you should!). The door should literally be kept locked so someone has to think to unlock the door before opening it, which makes people think about where the birds are. And don’t forget that clipped birds can also escape if they have the chance, so don’t go leaving doors open when Nike is out of the cage.

 

[bill_e]

The thing is, with flighted birds, doors and windows never get opened unless the birds are in their cage, or if you have screens (which you should!). The door should literally be kept locked so someone has to think to unlock the door before opening it, which makes people think about where the birds are. And don’t forget that clipped birds can also escape if they have the chance, so don’t go leaving doors open when Nike is out of the cage.

FlyBirdiesFly, yes, I understand all that but Nike is getting fast and quiet and 90% of the time will fly after you when you leave the room. She's a spoiled bird getting let out of her cage about 9 am and staying out all day (unless we go out) until bedtime. I will be taking her camping in our camper which is another reason to play it safe for the warm months.

 

[gracebowen]

You could consider a partial clip. When I did it I cut half of the first 2 flight feathers off. Then did 2 more the next day. This slowed them down but they could still fly.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I've always been an opponent of clipping UNLESS its in the birds best interest for safety. I don't agree with keeping them clipped just so you can "control" them. An initial clip when you first get them so you can establish a rapport where you are seen as the head of the flock and you have them properly tamed is what I believe. Is it in the birds best interest or your best interest is what I ask people. If its the former, by all means- but if its the latter, thats not right.

My Skittles is free-flighted, but I live in an apartment building with security doors on the second floor and because of the layout- Skittles escaping out the door is virtually impossible. I did have an issue with the windows. When he would get startled, he'd fly into them and twice he did that, so now I keep the blinds drawn down and open rather than drawn up. So for me, clipping him would be cruel. But for people who are in situations where escape is a realistic possibility- then clipping is the way to go.

 

[GCC_Kiwi_Dad]

We had Kiwi clipped to start, but decided to let the flight feathers grow out during her last molt. We have so much fun allowing her to fly around the house during this winter. We do have some concern as spring approaches and we head up to our seasonal in Maine with her, so we decided to do partial clip this spring so that she won't be able to take off over distance if she get's out this summer. We know from experience that when startled she can fly a good distance even when clipped, but at least it will help prevent her from going too far with a partial clip this summer. Our summary would be that allowing flight is simply awesome, but pairing that back a bit for safety is responsible in our case...

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

Actually, with a gust of wind, a partially clipped bird can go just as far when outside. Don’t count on the clip keeping your bird safe, because a partial clip when outside on a windy day is completely ineffective. She may not be able to fly far indoors, but trust me, so many people have lost their birds because they took them outside with a clip. I would let the feathers regrow during her next molt and work on recall training so she can come back to you in case she ever escapes (which she won’t be able to do if fighting against the wind while clipped). Clipped birds don’t have the experience with flying and will often be carried into a tree and not be able to fly down to you. If you feel escapes are a real possibility, the partial clip won’t work. You’ll have to find some way to make sure she doesn’t get out. This may mean getting screens for your windows or keeping the door locked.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

Let me add that this thread wasn’t supposed to be another “clipped vs flighted” debate. It was supposed to be answering the OP’s question, which was how to get Warbeak from chasing the smaller birds.

 

[LordTriggs]

Introducing a Second Bird... - Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community Anasi has some good timing with his threads! Hopefully this helps out. Possibly A thread should be written discussing all the points both for and against clipping as a reference people can look into as the debate does appear a lot and there seems to be a lot of mis-information around

 

[AkridChaos]

Thanks for the link LordTriggs. I’ll be giving this a try over the next weeks. I forsee a little green monster misbehaving a lot during this, but he’ll eventually understand (I hope). I may try the partial clip method with him temporarily just to slow him down in case he chases after Lily again during this training. She’s a bit old and can’t handle long chase flights like that, especially with her heart racing thousands of miles per hour out of fear. At least I know this can be worked on now, partially, without an actual clip. He can learn to wait, but not necessarily get along with the other birds. That’s still better than absolutely nothing.

 

[Anansi]

I'm glad you'll be trying the turn-based method. Remember, if you work on this in a smaller room you can manage what goes on between them without having to necessarily resort to that initial clipping. The smaller the room, the more control that you have. And once the turn-based training sinks in, you will no longer need small room confines for control.

 

[YUMgrinder]

I was a believer in letting them fly, but then I lost my lovebird to an open door, Not her fault, completely mine but now I keep them all clipped. I'm just too afraid of them getting out. It is a death sentence here in Wyoming, cold winters, windy as all heck and little trees to find shelter. If I invested time in flight and recall training perhaps I would let them fly but I haven't done any of that. Again, my own fault....

Recall training really doesn’t take much time, all you need to do is target train first and continue to lure them to hop on your hand until they come whenever you call them. If you feel your home isn’t safe for birds, though, recall training won’t fix that.

I do not believe my home to be unsafe for birds unless you consider the normal risks like walls that jump out of nowhere and 6 kids, 2 cats, 12 rats a rabbit and a girlfriend that loves chicken wings hehehe

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

Actually, with 2 cats, the ability to fly can mean the birds are able to escape in time if the cats ever come in contact with them. Unless the cats are always in a separate room from the birds, there is always the risk of them fluttering to the floor and not being able to fly up and away from those sharp claws. Just know that there are risks of having them clipped as well as having them flighted, but it’s up to you to decide what is safer for your birds. If you keep them clipped because you’re too lazy to invest a small amount of time to recall training, well continue to keep them flightless, but that’s wrong in my opinion. Only clip them for THEIR safety, not to accommodate what’s convenient for you.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Actually, with 2 cats, the ability to fly can mean the birds are able to escape in time if the cats ever come in contact with them. Unless the cats are always in a separate room from the birds, there is always the risk of them fluttering to the floor and not being able to fly up and away from those sharp claws. Just know that there are risks of having them clipped as well as having them flighted, but it’s up to you to decide what is safer for your birds. If you keep them clipped because you’re too lazy to invest a small amount of time to recall training, well continue to keep them flightless, but that’s wrong in my opinion. Only clip them for THEIR safety, not to accommodate what’s convenient for you.

Of course there are dangers in my home. Yes my pets are risks, although they are all well socialized with each other. I do not keep my cats separate, they roam the house free. My birds are secured in their cages when I am not home, and my decision to clip them may be out of convenience, or not. It's not really your place to tell me otherwise considering you know nothing of my household dynamics, but ultimately my parrots are safer being clipped. Maybe I am too lazy to recall train, or too busy or I just choose not to. but honestly I shouldn't care what you think about it. they are happy and safe, and that's what I do care about. Thank you for your valid opinion.

Oh, and yes a clipped bird can blow away in the wind, but they won't be able to fly so I wouldn't actually say it's ineffective. The wind has caught jazz before and it's taken him a ways, but if he weren't clipped, he could have flown away. Instead, he floated till he was able to come to a stop. Him being partially clipped was VERY effective.