Okay pseudo intellectual theory I have - the original colored species tend to be slightly wilder than the mutations? For example I have read that the Green Quaker tends to be more wild than the Blue Quaker and looking at youtube videos the original Green Cheek is also wilder than the Pineapple/Cinnamon mutation? I know there's probably no research to suggest this but could anyone shed some light.... I know each individual is different.
Differences between the Green Cheek Conure mutations?
- Thread starter Rouya
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This has not been the case in my experience. My first parrot was normal/standard green cheek, she was the sweetest parrot ever. While my cinnamon pineapple can be sweet and nippy
I also have an green quaker she is calm and sweet. While the 2 blue quakers I've had have been rambunctious and more likely to nip.
In some places , illegal poaching of baby parrots , or even adults from the wild are smuggled in and sold in the pet trade. That would be my only caveat
People breeding for color are only breeding for color , and there is back breeding. Back breeding can be linked with behavior issues.
Parrots aren't considered domesticated. There isn't much breeding going on for temperament.
Currently large scale warehouse breeding is going on , and it's strictly for profit.
I've only read of one breeder in the states, run by an avain vet and behaviorist. She regularly breeds her color mutations back to original color and gene pool. She does this to improve behavior, and robustness, and health .
Sometimes breeding for color other things come along fir the ride, and inbreeding for color can have negative effects. For examples, lutino , albino, and white can have weaker immune systems. Blue quaker tend to be smaller than original green..
99% of color mutation are bred for profit. The only thing they csre about is color.
It would be wonderful, and maybe one day true, to breed for temperament.
I also have an green quaker she is calm and sweet. While the 2 blue quakers I've had have been rambunctious and more likely to nip.
In some places , illegal poaching of baby parrots , or even adults from the wild are smuggled in and sold in the pet trade. That would be my only caveat
People breeding for color are only breeding for color , and there is back breeding. Back breeding can be linked with behavior issues.
Parrots aren't considered domesticated. There isn't much breeding going on for temperament.
Currently large scale warehouse breeding is going on , and it's strictly for profit.
I've only read of one breeder in the states, run by an avain vet and behaviorist. She regularly breeds her color mutations back to original color and gene pool. She does this to improve behavior, and robustness, and health .
Sometimes breeding for color other things come along fir the ride, and inbreeding for color can have negative effects. For examples, lutino , albino, and white can have weaker immune systems. Blue quaker tend to be smaller than original green..
99% of color mutation are bred for profit. The only thing they csre about is color.
It would be wonderful, and maybe one day true, to breed for temperament.
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SilverSage
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I have been working with mutations in budgies, cockatiels, gccs, IRNs for over 2 decades and have seen absolutely zero evidence of this.
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SilverSage
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Hey
this is an over generalization that lumps a lot of us who breed for health and temperament etc in with a lot of really evil people and it’s a dangerous and hurtful stereotype that damages the chances of smaller Aviculturists who are fighting to change the standards in the industry. I know that’s obviously not your intention I just wanted to mention it for future reference that rhetoric like this can really harm our efforts to improve things for parrots. Unfortunately, a lot of what you said is GENERALLY true of many large scale breeders, but not all.
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Hey
I know that’s obviously not your intention I just wanted to mention it for future reference that rhetoric like this can really harm our efforts to improve things for parrots. Unfortunately, a lot of what you said is GENERALLY true of many large scale breeders, but not all.
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You are a caring and wonderful breeder. It is a generalizing. I prefer smaller Aviculturists!!! I'm most impressed with you and your breeding, I direct people to your website all the time. Even on you website you warn of picking and research your breeder.
But I stand by it for the majority..
I love color mutations, all my current birds but one are color mutations. I guess I should add most breeding of parrots isn't for temperament, even normal standard colors.
Parrot breeding, doesn't yet have a size standard, confirmation standard, or temperament. Its just not there yet.
You dont send out make, female siblings, because there are idiots who would breeding them even knowing they are closely related!!
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SilverSage
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Yes people do that [emoji35] in fact I JUST got chewed out for it recently! I don’t understand how people can fail to understand why they can’t adopt a brother and sister together [emoji849]
Unfortunately breeding parrots in general, not just for color, is a highly unregulated industry full of nasty issues even when he person isn’t a scammer! I estimate that 80% of people who contact me have at least had one scammer try to get them.
Interestingly, I find that often the worst offenders won’t have much to offer for color, because they aren’t willing to put the money in to get a mutation bird. For example I’m about to drop almost $2k on a pair of mutation gccs, and that’s before the shipping, disease tests, vet visits, cages, toys, diet, you know; the works. A lot of the nastier breeders will only have normal greens, not because there is anything wrong with them, but because they can get a pair of those for $150, skip all the vets etc, and just breed them back to back to back year-round until they fall dead and they won’t be “out too much money” since the birds were cheap
I guess my point is actually that the whole industry is full of the good, bad, and ugly, not necessarily just “color breeders” lol.
One of the nice things about modern technology is that it really lets Aviculturists communicate with each other and form working relationships. My husband recently found a picture of a blue eclectus and asked me why I don’t get one. I said “that bird would costs at least $30k right now and even if I had that they wouldn’t sell him to me.” We are now able to work in networks (I’m not a Eckie breeder and I have no business with that mutation right now) with other ethical and experienced Aviculturists to breed back to normal enough times to stabilize a mutation in a diverse population to avoid the inbreeding issues with new mutations that previously we wouldn’t have had the network to support, simply because one breeder can’t realistically work with a wide and deep enough population of birds to stabilize the mutation on their own, if that makes sense? Like you have to take that mutation and spread it so wide that you can have birds that are for all reasonable purposes unrelated that still have that mutation.
But now I’m just rambling lol. Ultimately we stopped importing most parrots to the USA in 1992. Some can still get in but it’s expensive, risky, labor intensive, etc and no on is importing wild caught birds. I actually know the guy who imported the first violet IRNs though, from Australia. Because our populations have been captive bred for so long, there is no real genetic difference between wild color and mutation colors, but the breeders SHOULD be paying attention to the temperaments of the babies and not breed bad tempered birds. But like you said, the vast majority are just pumping out the highest numbers possible and leaving the buyer to sort out the consequences
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Unfortunately breeding parrots in general, not just for color, is a highly unregulated industry full of nasty issues even when he person isn’t a scammer! I estimate that 80% of people who contact me have at least had one scammer try to get them.
Interestingly, I find that often the worst offenders won’t have much to offer for color, because they aren’t willing to put the money in to get a mutation bird. For example I’m about to drop almost $2k on a pair of mutation gccs, and that’s before the shipping, disease tests, vet visits, cages, toys, diet, you know; the works. A lot of the nastier breeders will only have normal greens, not because there is anything wrong with them, but because they can get a pair of those for $150, skip all the vets etc, and just breed them back to back to back year-round until they fall dead and they won’t be “out too much money” since the birds were cheap
I guess my point is actually that the whole industry is full of the good, bad, and ugly, not necessarily just “color breeders” lol.
One of the nice things about modern technology is that it really lets Aviculturists communicate with each other and form working relationships. My husband recently found a picture of a blue eclectus and asked me why I don’t get one. I said “that bird would costs at least $30k right now and even if I had that they wouldn’t sell him to me.” We are now able to work in networks (I’m not a Eckie breeder and I have no business with that mutation right now) with other ethical and experienced Aviculturists to breed back to normal enough times to stabilize a mutation in a diverse population to avoid the inbreeding issues with new mutations that previously we wouldn’t have had the network to support, simply because one breeder can’t realistically work with a wide and deep enough population of birds to stabilize the mutation on their own, if that makes sense? Like you have to take that mutation and spread it so wide that you can have birds that are for all reasonable purposes unrelated that still have that mutation.
But now I’m just rambling lol. Ultimately we stopped importing most parrots to the USA in 1992. Some can still get in but it’s expensive, risky, labor intensive, etc and no on is importing wild caught birds. I actually know the guy who imported the first violet IRNs though, from Australia. Because our populations have been captive bred for so long, there is no real genetic difference between wild color and mutation colors, but the breeders SHOULD be paying attention to the temperaments of the babies and not breed bad tempered birds. But like you said, the vast majority are just pumping out the highest numbers possible and leaving the buyer to sort out the consequences
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Cardinal
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For a species like Eclectus Parrot, maintaining the integrity of various subspecies to the maximum extent possible may be more important than breeding color mutations like blue , yellow etc
SilverSage
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The eclectus is a great example of how unethical and uneducated people have done a huge amount of damage to our captive gene pool [emoji22]
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Its big money to petstore chains. And in tge past tgey used local and small breeders, which was great. But now tgey are getting into the business with large scale warehouse breeding. Many if the babies are coming out with little socialized, and even fear if hands from fast hsbd feeding with no heart or soul.
Petstore sell impulse parrots, expensive toys food, and d cages, its big money to them. Now thst most don't sell dogs or cats.I
There is higher demand and ability to charge more fir the color mutations.. so corporations are focusing on that. I too like color mutations. But all the parrots they are breeding of standard ir mutations is just without the care or passion..I so prefer the breeders like SilverSage, than this big business warehouse breeding. .. 20 years ago the petstore would put you in touch with the breeder if you had questions, or wanted a color mutation. Thats no longer the case....Sadly
Petstore sell impulse parrots, expensive toys food, and d cages, its big money to them. Now thst most don't sell dogs or cats.I
There is higher demand and ability to charge more fir the color mutations.. so corporations are focusing on that. I too like color mutations. But all the parrots they are breeding of standard ir mutations is just without the care or passion..I so prefer the breeders like SilverSage, than this big business warehouse breeding. .. 20 years ago the petstore would put you in touch with the breeder if you had questions, or wanted a color mutation. Thats no longer the case....Sadly
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SilverSage
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I’ve actually met the guy who produces the gccs for Petco. Babies get pulled as soon as they hatch and passed off to hand feeders by the hundreds. It’s heartbreaking.
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SilverSage
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Interestingly, most of the truly “rare” mutations don’t go into the pet trade at all, they stick with us small time breeders for years before they are cheap enough to sell as pets.
I actually am currently hand raising a blue harlequin IRN baby. They haven’t been in the USA very long so it’s almost impossible to find them in the pet trade right now. They are common as pets in Australia though!
Usually we hold these back to sell to other breeders to do what we have talked about; breed them
Back to normal and other mutations, but this one I’m hoping to send to a pet home obviously I’m just as picky about what breeders get my babies as what pet homes do.
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I actually am currently hand raising a blue harlequin IRN baby. They haven’t been in the USA very long so it’s almost impossible to find them in the pet trade right now. They are common as pets in Australia though!
Usually we hold these back to sell to other breeders to do what we have talked about; breed them
Back to normal and other mutations, but this one I’m hoping to send to a pet home
obviously I’m just as picky about what breeders get my babies as what pet homes do.
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Yes, and sick and problem birds are gotten rid of, its big business with an eye on profit margins...they don't care they are living creatures.
I was so fortunate to get Orbit, before he git sent back to corporate....they were havinga staff meeting about sending him back when I came in, for his screaming and inability to sell him because of that....who knows what would have happened to him..m
I was so fortunate to get Orbit, before he git sent back to corporate....they were havinga staff meeting about sending him back when I came in, for his screaming and inability to sell him because of that....who knows what would have happened to him..m
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Interestingly, most of the truly “rare” mutations don’t go into the pet trade at all, they stick with us small time breeders for years before they are cheap enough to sell as pets.
I actually am currently hand raising a blue harlequin IRN baby. They haven’t been in the USA very long so it’s almost impossible to find them in the pet trade right now. They are common as pets in Australia though!
Usually we hold these back to sell to other breeders to do what we have talked about; breed them
Back to normal and other mutations, but this one I’m hoping to send to a pet home
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very true on the rare ones.
That is a gorgeous mutation!!
SilverSage
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That’s heartbreaking! Yes I’ve seen chicks with no eyes or half beaks. I know people who have the connections to get some of those babies from the big corporate breeders and place them but the big guys who run their operations warehouse style don’t even have a method of knowing which pairs those babies are produced by!
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it isn't widely known thst pet store are doing this warehouse breeding @!! And itst not regulated or inspected its awful
Thats why ehen i wanted my blue quaker who ended up being my Neptune, I found a small private breeder.
I consider Orbit a rescue that unfortunately I paid way to much for, and just makes room for the next warehouse baby....but I couldn't leave him, and I knew I could help him he is so calm and lovely abd snuggly now, but a first time parrot owner would have been unhappy abd really struggle. Would have likely re homed him.....the screaming was the worst I've dealt with...abd took 2 month to overcome. Abd had a true hand phobia, not just shy or fear...
Thats why ehen i wanted my blue quaker who ended up being my Neptune, I found a small private breeder.
I consider Orbit a rescue that unfortunately I paid way to much for, and just makes room for the next warehouse baby....but I couldn't leave him, and I knew I could help him he is so calm and lovely abd snuggly now, but a first time parrot owner would have been unhappy abd really struggle. Would have likely re homed him.....the screaming was the worst I've dealt with...abd took 2 month to overcome. Abd had a true hand phobia, not just shy or fear...
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SilverSage
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It has taken a turn lol
It actually IS inspected and regulated. I get inspected 4x a year, but all that’s required is some very basic hygiene, food, water, shelter, and certain record keeping. Oh and a fire hydrant lol. The inspectors are from the department of agriculture and they are more worried about the risk the operation presents to the local human community (sewage, rats, etc) than to the well-being of the birds as long as you aren’t crossing over into what is legally considered animal cruelty, and people really don’t have a good grasp about cruelty to birds the way they do with dogs and cats.
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It actually IS inspected and regulated. I get inspected 4x a year, but all that’s required is some very basic hygiene, food, water, shelter, and certain record keeping. Oh and a fire hydrant lol. The inspectors are from the department of agriculture and they are more worried about the risk the operation presents to the local human community (sewage, rats, etc) than to the well-being of the birds as long as you aren’t crossing over into what is legally considered animal cruelty, and people really don’t have a good grasp about cruelty to birds the way they do with dogs and cats.
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whitney.phillips919
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Most people say there isn’t a difference. I don’t know either but so far one of the rumors I have heard has been true for me. I’ve had two standard GCC that were both goofy, outgoing, sweet and demanding. My turquoise is more quiet and independent. Really chill but not that interested in hanging out with me all day.
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SilverSage
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Just like families in humans can be different temperaments and look similar, so can birds. You might have a family of very outgoing redheads and a family of quiet blonds, but even though that pattern may play out all around you, it will be opposite in someone else’s life.
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I agree 100%. I have a small aviary and breed for color and temperament. I put much more into taking care of my babies and developing good relationships with each one than I could ever get back.Hey
I know that’s obviously not your intention I just wanted to mention it for future reference that rhetoric like this can really harm our efforts to improve things for parrots. Unfortunately, a lot of what you said is GENERALLY true of many large scale breeders, but not all.
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