Desperate..... please help!!

[southshore]

Hi everyone I hope all members are doing well and all your birds are healthy and happy!

I am desperately searching for some information... I was hoping someone could help me out. I would be extremely grateful...

Can anyone here please, please, PLEASE tell me in which country are in South America/ Central America are macaws the lowest priced? I am asking assuming they would be lowest priced there since they are indigenous to that region. So far due to lack of resources and information on the Internet it has been really frustrating to find any info in this regard.


If anyone can point out breeders or Macaw owners from Central and South America on THIS FORUM that would be great too.

Thank you so much for taking out the time to read
my post. I would appreciate it very much for any information in this regard. Thanks!

 

[SailBoat]

Assuming that you are in North America, it does not matter what specific Country in South America has the 'cheapest' MAC's since importing of MAC's into North America has been BAND for near twenty years. In addition, the vast majority of MAC's are listed as 'Endanger' in their natural ranges, which require special Import Documentation from both the Country of Export and of the Country of Import.

I saw twelve MAC's earlier this week at a Rehomer's and if needed, I could have hands on another thirty withing a couple of days with in a four hour drive. So, with that level of 'Volume' desperate to Import makes no sense to me.

Please provide some understanding why you are 'desperate' in finding one of the Parrots, which are in the largest volume available in North America!

 

[Flboy]

Southshore is in Karachi, Pakistan!
http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/63436-breeding-large-parrots.html

 

[SailBoat]

Southshore is in Karachi, Pakistan!
http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/63436-breeding-large-parrots.html

Thanks David,



I would first start with your Government and determine where they are participating in the restriction of Importing of Endangered Live Parrots. If not, they would likely have a list of approved Importers of Live Parrots and direct you to one of them. Or, you may have to obtain documents to import Live Parrots. If none of those restrictions are in place, you can then connect with a Country that 'may' still be Exporting Live Parrots. The majority of South America Countries have joined and no longer Export Live Parrots.

Please understand that 'low' cost Live Parrot Export 'today' commonly means dealing with Black Market Exporters. Take care, and do your research on who you are dealing with!!!

 

[texsize]

You might try searching for "guacamaya" .
This is the name they go by in Spanish. I don't know if it's the same in Brazil.

After having a parrot imported from the wild (before the import ban was in place and through ignorance on my part) I would never do it again.
It is cruel to the bird and make difficult "pets".
texsize

 

[southshore]

Hello sir/ madam texsize and all the other great people that have responded to the post . Thank you for taking out the time to read my post and replying. The disappointments that I have faced with people not bothering to respond to even multiple PMs I have huge amounts of respect for people who are helpful. Thank you... thank you very much indeed!

Please kindly share your importing experience with me. Which species did you import, from which country and through what channel? How much did it cost you? What was the age of the bird and how much did it cost you? How much was tge bird for and what were the misc additional costs? What is it that you regret about importing the bird?

I can't send private messages since I don't have the minimum 20 posts to do so. However, if you prefer texsize you can reply with a PM.

Will look forward to your reply. Thanks!

 

[wrench13]

I have only seen movies and videos about what the birds go thru in the import process, from Chicks taken from nests, stuffed into cages like eggs in a crate or even tighter. And if only 5 birds make it alive - well thats why they are so much $$$. Its horrible to see, and I dont wonder that an imported from wild parrot may never make a good companion.
Compared that with a parrot raised by a breeder , with lots of human contact, raised with love and kindness. I would be scouring your own country or surrounding ones, looking for a breeder, if not for a mac then a smaller parrot. I think you will be far happier. Good Luck!

 

[GaleriaGila]

I agree with the above posts. Thank YOU for reaching out and being open to input. The import industry scares ans disgusts the life out of me. I hope you can find a bird in your general area in need of rescue...
Another thought - keeping a macaw well-housed and paying for avian veterinary care is quite pricey. If finances are a big concern, maybe you could wait or save up...
Again, thanks for listening.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Since many parrots are endangered in their home countries, and illegal to export or import, it doesn't seem ethical for me to give anyone assistance in doing so. I believe the parrots are much better off where they are.

 

[EllenD]

Please do not attempt to import a macaw or any other wild parrot. I work with rescues, and I've seen many a macaw or cockatoo shoved inside a 2 liter soda bottle...Yes, they cut the bottoms off of the soda bottles, shove an adult Macaw inside the bottle with its head towards the tiny cap, and tape the bottom back on. They do hundreds at a time, then throw them all into crates, suitcases, you name it. Some live, I think about 40% die. And these are wild birds that they are doing this to, in order to breed them in whatever country they're going to...You cannot get a good pet bird this way at all, and if you're doing this to breed them I can't really, or won't really comment.

The reason you can't find any info on this by the way is that it's illegal to export wild parrots from most countries now, and it's illegal to import as well...This is due to a number of reasons, the most important being it's cruel to steal a parrot from the wild and treat it like you're packing a sweater in a suitcase, all to make money. And if it's to save money buying a pet macaw, let me assure you that you don't want one that comes that way, it will not be a pet at all. And again, if you want to import in order to breed and make money I'd advise you to read up on the literally thousands of macaws that need homes.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[southshore]

Thank you SailBoat.
Thank you Flboy.
Thank you texsize.
Thank you wrench13.
Thank you GaleriaGila.
Thank you Kentuckienne.
Thank you EllenD.

A personal Thank you to all of you great people for your help! Without you and others like you the world would surely fall apart!

 

[southshore]

wrench13.... I do not intend to get a wild caught bird. I am looking for breeder raised/ captive bred macaws, primarily scarlet and hyacinth macaws. Unfortunately, there are no breeders in my country. I have kept smaller parrots like Alexandrines and Indian Ringnecks.

 

[southshore]

GaleriaGila..... no local options are available sine the birds are not available locally. There would be hardly two or three in the country, if any at all.

Finances for aqeduate housing, feeding and veterinary care are not a concern.

 

[southshore]

Kentuckienne.... it is not completely and totally banned and illegal, permits are required.

As for CITES, there is no sense in banning the trade of captive bred birds. Moreover, what is the sense in banning the trade of Harlequins and Catalinas and other hybrids? Might as well ban the trade of fancy chicken and pigeon breeds since they too have DNA from pheasants and wild pigeons. This is what happens when bureaucracy and PETA makes the laws, rather than relevant professionals.

 

[southshore]

EllenD.... I don't want to get a wild caught bird. Macaws are rare in my country so there are none that are up for adoption.

Do you know from which countries is it still legal to export these birds? Here is a list of countries in Central and South America where the larger macaws are present:

Central America:
Mexico
Guatemala
Belize
El Salvador
Honduras
Nicaragua
Costa Rica
Panama

South America:
Ecuador
Columbia
Venezuela
Guyana
Suriname
French Guiana
Brazil
Bolivia
Argentina

I am sure in these countries there must be breeders there as well. Like for instance, Alexandrine parrots are indigenous to our country, and there a 100s of breeders all across the country, as there are smugglers of wild caught birds, and so the prices for BREEDER birds is cheaper than anywhere else in the world because generally where the species is indigenous to is also where there are the most breeders of the species and hence that is where one gets the best prices.

Is there any possibility of bringing one of the thousands of macaws in the US needing good homes into my loving and caring home?

 

[Kentuckienne]

Kentuckienne.... it is not completely and totally banned and illegal, permits are required.

As for CITES, there is no sense in banning the trade of captive bred birds. Moreover, what is the sense in banning the trade of Harlequins and Catalinas and other hybrids? Might as well ban the trade of fancy chicken and pigeon breeds since they too have DNA from pheasants and wild pigeons. This is what happens when bureaucracy and PETA makes the laws, rather than relevant professionals.

The reason trade in captive-bred birds is prohibited is because it becomes impossible to distinguish them once they are in the destination country. Or on route to it. It's not difficult to forge paperwork and bribe officials to let some birds through. If none are allowed, then anybody caught with one is breaking the law, so there is no chance to get away with it.

There is no aspect of the wild-caught bird trade that is ethical. Poachers cut down trees to reach nests, kill parent birds to get the babies, parrots can be killed in the process of being caught, then they are transported in back channels in ways that cause the death of many birds, then sold up the chain fir more money, usually while kept in deplorable conditions, until they reach the end buyer. For every bird that reaches a retail customer, many more perish.

I understand the desire to possess exotic, beautiful and valuable things. Living in a place where parrots are rare makes them even more desirable and expensive, especially as status symbols. But it is not good for the parrot, who rarely finds a lifelong companion and excellent physical and emotional support. Humans tire if what they couldn't live without last week, they change living situations, they die. The parrot's life often counts for nothing in such a case, nothing more than what price it will bring. They are intelligent and not domesticated in the way chickens or dogs are.

Surely there must be some other object if desire that will satisfy, without causing such pain and suffering. It's only my opinion and I don't speak for anyone else here. My counsel would be to find another way to make money or find pleasure that doesn't perpetuate the chain of suffering that happens when humans begin to breed parrots as a commodity. Especially if they are uncommon in your country of residence...it is harder to stop evil than to prevent it from taking root in the first place.

 

[southshore]

Dear friend... I am not looking to adopt a wild caught bird. If you read my previous posts you can see that the reason why I am asking about countries where these birds are indigenous is because there tends to be a greater supply of BREEDER RAISED/ CAPTIVE BRED birds in these regions, as is tge case with BREEDER BRED Alexandrine parrots in my country. You can buy a the best breeder bred alexandrine for $ 50 here.

Not having a reliable system to distinguish the breeder birds from the wild caught ones is a gross inefficiency on thd part of the CITES in devising a suitableable system to differentiate. Its like saying all muslims are terrorists or all African Americans are criminals. It's an excuse for
not being able to find an answer.

And why can't I import an Harlequin or a Catalina. Might as well ban trade of fancy chicken and pigeon breeds since they too contain pheasant and wild pigeon DNA!:08:

I would very gladly build a 5 meter tall aviary for my macaws.

 

[SailBoat]

Ok, bring this discussion back down out of the World issues and dealing with the reality of getting a:
1. Healthy,
2. Full Fledged Older Baby,
3. With the proper international paperwork,
4. From a known USA Source, and
5. The Parrot you requested, is the Parrot you receive! After all that is really what you want, correct.

Source:
Parrots of the World
316 Sunrise Highway
Rock Centre, New York USA 11570
Tel: 516 764 0717
Fax: 516 764 0125

NOTE: Numbers provided are USA numbers and do not include international and country codes

Email: [email protected]
Website: parrotsoftheworld.com

They are fully register to ship internationally and handle all international paperwork for export and import documents required.


I have checked with a close friend in Panama and she stated that the export from South and Central America Parrots are still 'wild caught' and are black market transported from those Country's that are no longer exporting to those Countries that still do export!.

I did not ask what the process was because I know that you want a Baby from a Breeder, not a 'wild caught' parrot.

NOTE: If your goal is to breed these Parrots, please tell Parrot of the World that that is your goal!!! They can adjust the pre-training to take that into consideration. Plus only ship you a specific sex. NOTE: Larger Parrots can take up to ten years to be successful!!! Ask them about Proven Pairs!!!!

 

[Dinosrawr]

Dear friend... I am not looking to adopt a wild caught bird. If you read my previous posts you can see that the reason why I am asking about countries where these birds are indigenous is because there tends to be a greater supply of BREEDER RAISED/ CAPTIVE BRED birds in these regions, as is tge case with BREEDER BRED Alexandrine parrots in my country. You can buy a the best breeder bred alexandrine for $ 50 here.

Not having a reliable system to distinguish the breeder birds from the wild caught ones is a gross inefficiency on thd part of the CITES in devising a suitableable system to differentiate. Its like saying all muslims are terrorists or all African Americans are criminals. It's an excuse for
not being able to find an answer.

And why can't I import an Harlequin or a Catalina. Might as well ban trade of fancy chicken and pigeon breeds since they too contain pheasant and wild pigeon DNA!:08:

I would very gladly build a 5 meter tall aviary for my macaws.

Sailboat has provided one of the best offers. The best thing you can do is contact large, parrot specific stores that have the legal ability to ship CITES listed parrot species out of country. But be prepared to pay a hefty price - if I recall, Sailboat also mentioned that an exceptionally rare pair of Amazons was sold by this store as well to a city in China, and it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So you'll have to reign in your hopes for a cheap, affordable parrot species if you want it ethically bred and from a trusted source (not that macaws are even cheap to begin with). I'm imagining you're looking at a 200-500% increase in price because of legal shipping protocols out of country.

 

[texsize]

I only have personal knowledge of one country in South America, Colombia. My wife's family live there so I know whereof I speak.
Personal ownership of parrots is against the law in Colombia.
It could be that Someone could be a professional breeder and have a permit but I don't know.

I have been told that the police go door to door asking if you are keeping a parrot.
I don't know if they do this to crack down on smuggling or protecting the birds.
I don't know how widespread this is in South/Central America.

And as others have stated I don't know how you could tell if the bird you are trying to import has been captured or breed in captivities.
I believe this is what has so many here on the forum upset at the idea.

One other thing I would like to mention in regard to the ILLEGAL trade of parrots.
When a nesting tree is coped down to take babies it removes a nesting site FOREVER.
Parrots will only nest is certain trees, as these trees are lost there are fewer and fewer places for the parrots that are left to breed in.

I understand you are trying to get your bird from a captive breeder but getting one from a country where they are native increases the chances that it was stolen out of the wild.
texsize