Defining a senior bird?

[Scott]

Unlike traditional pets, it is difficult to define a senior avian. No difficulty with or loss of teeth, greying of coat, obvious cataracts, incontinence issues, blah, blah, blah. In fact many of us do *not* know their chronological age and will never have a clue.

In my experience, arthritis may be a significant indicator. Some of my definitively older birds have moved more slowly and had a slightly weaker grip. Totally flouting this, however, are my wild caught Goffins at age 40+. The male looks like and has an activity level the equivalent to his young adult offspring. The female, however, has had some past toe injuries and has a weaker grip with the affected foot. My 27 year old female Ekkie has an extremely early cataract visible only upon skilled inspection.

Given the range of species approximate lifespans, do we arbitrarily suggest they are senior at a certain age? 50% of the average, 75%??

While my sampling is small and subjective, might birds born and raised in the wild have an edge over the far more common captive births? We know captivity is kinder for longevity, but is there significance in the very early years?

 

[GaleriaGila]

Good question!

I suppose there's nothing like wild natural selection to keep the gene pool good.

As you know, I've had the Rbird since he was a baby, so I have the advantage of knowing exactly how old he is.

 

[Nicky76]

According to our vet, Archie is about a million years old but that's based on the osteoarthritis on his full body X-ray, some of which could be secondary to the gout he has from such a poor diet prior to living with us.


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[texsize]

You hear about "dog years" and "cat years"
Is there any correlation for specific breeds of parrots for "parrot years" ??
I know a macaw would not be the same as a cockatiel.
Or a cockatiel to a love bird.
IS there a scientist on the forum ??

 

[SailBoat]

Genetics of a wide and varied Gene Pool in the Wild, in addition to Parent raised and feed with foods that are naturally occurring in that region has a strong effect of the overall Health of the Parrot. Add to that an extremely active life style and the foundation for a much longer life is planted firmly in place. Short the ugliness of the Import trade, the Wild caught Parrots have a clear advantage over the 'common' breeding method employed today.

At one point, a Breeder would not release a Parrot until it had fully fledged. Today, it is common for the new Owner to be handed a Parrot that has yet to be taste solid food!

In my mind and the Amazons that have lived with us (also a small sample) the Wild Caught had a clear advantage!

 

[GaleriaGila]

Soooooooooooooo, like............................
If a bird's life expectancy is 35-40 years and he's 32, do you sorta extrapolate algebraically (x is to y as a is to b) based on human life expectancy to get 'bird year' equivalence? Or is that even meaningful? Probably not, I suppose. And with all the uncertainties you just cited...
*sigh*

 

[SailBoat]

Soooooooooooooo, like............................
If a bird's life expectancy is 35-40 years and he's 32, do you sorta extrapolate algebraically (x is to y as a is to b) based on human life expectancy to get 'bird year' equivalence? Or is that even meaningful? Probably not, I suppose. And with all the uncertainties you just cited...
*sigh*

The equation for a specific Parrot would differ. For this example, lets use Rb. And, it would look something like this: One flying little demon over a loving Mom, while then overlording a rival would multiple the than anticipated expectancy by a factor of 7 thus exceeding the equivalence of 4.3 cats plus 6.5 dogs. This would result in something over one million years, which has been support by a licensed Vet. Positive Factors: Flyer and Rubber Ball Killer, Vampire, i.e. Biter (fresh blood transfusions) = Very Active Life Style.

Very Active Life Style = Longer Life...

 

[GaleriaGila]

*head spinning*

Y-y-y-yes...

S-s-s-s-SCIENCE!

*fainting dead awayyyyyyyyyyyyy*


I laughed OUT loud so hard that I woke the Rbird up!

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

In laymen's terms, the bird does whatever he wants for as long as he wants, yes? I'm a simple man. I have to break stuff down.

 

[SailBoat]

Well Yes, but you get extra points for suffering prior to your passing. Kind of a get in easier pass.

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

Parrot Purgatory. Of course. I appreciate your guidance. I have waited a long time for stewardship. Bird and wife don't really understand me.

 

[SailBoat]

Scott, very sorry for the humor spin-off of the discussion of Defining a Senior Parrot.

However, what did somewhat shine though was the reality that a Parrot with an Active Life Style will benefit, even if the Rival than suffers Parrot Purgatory.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I feel uncomfortable making a relevant contribution to a thread instead of a bad pun, bad joke or bad poem.

Is the working definition of a "senior" parrot a bird whose body has begun to develop signs of degenerative changes associated with age - arthritis, bad joints, wasting of muscle mass, thinning of bone, weakening of immune system, loss of hearing and vision? Basically everything that can go wrong will go wrong. Any age bird could develop some of these symptoms age brings them all on. It sounds as if maybe the whole syndrome is happening in younger birds, perhaps because of diet and environmental factors?

I've read lots of reference articles that say the average life of a Rickeybird in the wild is 30-35 years, and in captivity they can survive to one million and thirty. But I've never ever seen any citations for those numbers. Who collected the data on how long captive parrots live? There's no central reporting agency. There's word of mouth. Birds can't tell us. People inherit birds with no idea how old they are. Are some birds living to 100+? Where is all this data on how long parrots live? Surely someone did a graduate thesis on this?

I guess what I'm wondering is ... Does it make sense to talk about parrots aging at a different rate if we don't really have the data to make reasonable assumptions about their ages in the first place?

 

[SailBoat]

I feel uncomfortable making a relevant contribution to a thread instead of a bad pun, bad joke or bad poem.

Is the working definition of a "senior" parrot a bird whose body has begun to develop signs of degenerative changes associated with age - arthritis, bad joints, wasting of muscle mass, thinning of bone, weakening of immune system, loss of hearing and vision? Basically everything that can go wrong will go wrong. Any age bird could develop some of these symptoms age brings them all on. It sounds as if maybe the whole syndrome is happening in younger birds, perhaps because of diet and environmental factors?

I've read lots of reference articles that say the average life of a Rickeybird in the wild is 30-35 years, and in captivity they can survive to one million and thirty. But I've never ever seen any citations for those numbers. Who collected the data on how long captive parrots live? There's no central reporting agency. There's word of mouth. Birds can't tell us. People inherit birds with no idea how old they are. Are some birds living to 100+? Where is all this data on how long parrots live? Surely someone did a graduate thesis on this?

I guess what I'm wondering is ... Does it make sense to talk about parrots aging at a different rate if we don't really have the data to make reasonable assumptions about their ages in the first place?

Well stated! And with a twist of humor!

The good news is that there are documented cases with older Avian Knowledgeable Vets and older Avian Vets who's clients have been with them for many Decades. In addition to, those same Vets seeing younger clients. This group of Vets have seen the transition from 'Home' made meals, to prepackaged Seed Diets, to original Pellet Diets and now to the 'natural' based Pellet Diets, and also the return to a wide and more Healthy Fresh Food Diets that have gained popularity on the Parrot Forums and other Parrot groups.

The Studies are just this year making their way to the Avian Community driven by the Avian Vets and supported /undertaken by their Educational Institutions. With the upcoming Avian Conferences in January - March 2017, the documentation will be more readily available.

 

[Scott]

I am going to ask my vet during Angel's next re-check to define what he considers "senior." He has mentioned cardiovascular illness affects a disproportionate number of his clients. As with humans, it can be a mix of genetics, diet, and activity level.

I love thread migrations! And especially humor! All healthy twists and turns necessary to keep the conversation alive!!

 

[Kiwibird]

I would personally probably consider a bird in the last 20-25% or so of it's expected lifespan a "senior", which would obviously vary by species. We have a fairly reasonable idea of the lifespans of most captive species these days, so it wouldn't be too difficult IMO to classify a 15 year old budgie developing arthritis as a "senior" where a 15 year old macaw is just settling down from puberty and still a "young adult". And I think a lot has to do with the individual, just like humans. We generally consider a human of 65+ years old a "senior" even though many people remain in good health and active until 80's+. Genetics, diet, lifestyle... it all plays a role.

My parents birds are all on the cusp of being "senior" birds and an interesting "case study" as single home birds with known backgrounds. The GCA and G2 were bought as unweaned babies, the DYH was bought as a mature wild caught shortly after being imported. All 3 have received the exact same care for 40+ years in the same home. The goffin is the youngest, and is in perfect health. He has so much energy, it's like he's eaten a bowl of bird crack every morning. The oldest, the DYH, has some minor arthritis in the foot she broke many years ago, but is in otherwise perfect health and still as active as ever, flying around, playing, getting into trouble. She could be well into her 50's or even 60's and we'd never know. The GCA, however, started having health issues around puberty. Lost all his head feathers (which never came back) and no vet has ever been able to offer a reason why, but he was in relatively good health until the past few years and is now really going downhill fast. He developed a cataract, had a major stroke, has had a couple suspected seizures, not growing back molted feathers and is becoming increasingly immobile from arthritis. It has long been suspected he may be a product of inbreeding, as was apparently common in the early days of captive breeding parrots. He eats the same healthy diet as the other 2 and has no deficiencies or dietary-related health issues like liver disease, was always been active until recently and has been a happy/well adjusted/loved parrot all his life. It's very sad, especially when the other 2 are so vibrant and full of life still, but gives an interesting perspective on how individual in the same environment react differently to the aging process.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Really thought-provoking.
I will look forward to reading some pf those proceedings from the convention... can we access some of those things online? Come to think of it, I believe I still have a membership in the State Library (as a former State employee) through which I can access
peer-reviewed journals, veterinary and others. Gonna check that out.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I would personally probably consider a bird in the last 20-25% or so of it's expected lifespan a "senior", which would obviously vary by species. We have a fairly reasonable idea of the lifespans of most captive species these days, so it wouldn't be too difficult IMO to classify a 15 year old budgie developing arthritis as a "senior" where a 15 year old macaw is just settling down from puberty and still a "young adult". And I think a lot has to do with the individual, just like humans. We generally consider a human of 65+ years old a "senior" even though many people remain in good health and active until 80's+. Genetics, diet, lifestyle... it all plays a role.

My parents birds are all on the cusp of being "senior" birds and an interesting "case study" as single home birds with known backgrounds. The GCA and G2 were bought as unweaned babies, the DYH was bought as a mature wild caught shortly after being imported. All 3 have received the exact same care for 40+ years in the same home. The goffin is the youngest, and is in perfect health. He has so much energy, it's like he's eaten a bowl of bird crack every morning. The oldest, the DYH, has some minor arthritis in the foot she broke many years ago, but is in otherwise perfect health and still as active as ever, flying around, playing, getting into trouble. She could be well into her 50's or even 60's and we'd never know. The GCA, however, started having health issues around puberty. Lost all his head feathers (which never came back) and no vet has ever been able to offer a reason why, but he was in relatively good health until the past few years and is now really going downhill fast. He developed a cataract, had a major stroke, has had a couple suspected seizures, not growing back molted feathers and is becoming increasingly immobile from arthritis. It has long been suspected he may be a product of inbreeding, as was apparently common in the early days of captive breeding parrots. He eats the same healthy diet as the other 2 and has no deficiencies or dietary-related health issues like liver disease, was always been active until recently and has been a happy/well adjusted/loved parrot all his life. It's very sad, especially when the other 2 are so vibrant and full of life still, but gives an interesting perspective on how individual in the same environment react differently to the aging process.

It almost sounds as if the GCA is developing an auto-immune disorder. I know people who suffer from these - there are many manifestations. One person was most affected first in her joints and then it began to attack soft tissues. One infant turned out to lack a gene necessary to metabolize something that then built up to toxic levels. I don't know how safe steroids are for birds, but they seem to help some people. If you pretend he's a person and put all the symptoms into WebMD or other diagnostic tool, what do you come up with?

 

[smbrds]

Good question!

I suppose there's nothing like wild natural selection to keep the gene pool good.

As you know, I've had the Rbird since he was a baby, so I have the advantage of knowing exactly how old he is.

Luckily, same here with Baby too. The worried part is the differing lifespans in many books, articles....so I just look to read and talk to those who have them and it is reassuring.

Love my little guy every day, every moment.

 

[Cindymcm]

I have a senior citizen here, 60 odd. I've never really thought of him as old but thinking about the changes in him recently, when i was in my teens 20 years ago, he was happy to climb all over my arm and play with stuff more, jump and squeak on his perch etc. He was quite mobile and happy eating food from his claw. Now days he is really very slow getting around, only eat from a dish and won't hold his food. Won't consider getting on my arm and X-rays proved he definitely has arthritis which explains why he doesn't want on my arm. He also isn't very good at preening anymore.

It is easy to not notice these things if you have had them in the family a long time but it certainly helps when you do.