Correction/discipline help needed....

[GIJoe]

Not sure the proper term to use for birds.....
Our issue is as follows....
We have had Squiggy home for ~5 wks now.. She is my baby, and she knows it. She is also Very pleasant to my wife, but not always.

The main issue is our kids.. Squiggy has become very unruly with the kiddos, and has bitten a few times, quite hard... She bites them often, but has really chomped down a few Times (no blood, but darn close)...

So, I need guidance on correcting this behavior. I cannot have my kids trying to enjoy her, and being injured. It's not fair to them or Squiggs....

Help please!

Info on kids... Boy-10, girl-7, both intelligent and disciplined. Son is animated and active, daughter is calm, quiet and sweet.
Both know to move slow and quiet and speak sweetly to Squiggy when trying to get her to step upon to their hands...

 

[Jayyj]

There are far better informed people than I to help with the specifics of this, and hopefully one of the experts will chime in soon, but as a general point it strikes me that five weeks is a very short time for a cockatoo to be fully settled into the family, and that you might have to put in quite a bit more work before it's realistic to expect her to interact with very small children. Remember it has to be a pleasant experience for the bird as well as the child, and if she's biting in this situation she's quite possibly telling you she's not happy with it.

Although I don't have experience of multiple birds, I have a cockatoo that used to be nippy whenever she was confronted with people she didn't know, and I've done a lot of work with her to correct this. What I do now if someone wants to interact with her is get them to sit down and gently put her down on their knee, where she'll happily bob up and down and show off for them without putting them in a position where they can get bitten. As long as both parties are looking relaxed, after a couple of minutes I'll show them how to stroke her in such a way that they won't get bitten, and then if they're doing well I'll let her hop up onto their fore arm. I always stay close and ready to intervene if I see the bird's body language change, and if at any point she looks stressed I just pick her up again. It took me a while to work this out but now I know how to do it people very rarely get bitten and she's becoming very sociable and easy for others to handle - in fact, meeting new people is one of her favourite things to do.

If you take your time I'm sure you'll find a way for your kids to interact with her - it just might not happen overnight.

 

[GIJoe]

Really? No tips from the "pros" on correcting this behavior?

Jayyj, I appreciate your story... I guess I'll try the lip intro idea and see how it works..
Can you expand on how one can pet the bird without being able to be bitten? I'm not following that..

 

[Kiwibird]

When children are involved, it is a touchy subject and difficult question to answer. There are many different parenting styles, and not all of them "mesh" You have also left out some important info that could point to the reason WHY Squiggy is behaving this way. If he's a generally nice bird, he's not being "mean" for no reason.

Parrots DO pick up on many things, including that children are "different" than adults (and may feel dominant over them). Children also have smaller hands than adults, and simply may be too small to provide a comfortable and stable perch. Have you had your children try offering their arm instead of their hand and see how he reacts to the bigger/more stable perch? Have you explained to them they need to be firm and authoritative when giving the step up command? Have you explained why commands are important (so Squiggy knows and understands whats being asked of him)? Also what body language to watch for that could indicate Squiggy is not in the mood to be petted and that they should respect that? Not trying to grill you (well, ya , I am, but not in a mean way), but these are important points.

I grew up with parrots and have been handling them from a young age. MY parents approach was to explain a concept (i.e. "your hand is too small offer an arm" or "tell them to come here", which was their version of step up) and if I did not listen and got bit as a result, I got in trouble for not listening and respecting the birds. 2 of the birds did not bite unless there was a reason, and they seemed to understand I was little and warning pinched more than savagely bit. Coincidentally, it was the goffin who just had it out for me and he would attack me any chance he got. Did not matter what myself or my parents did, he hates me. He hated me as a kid, he hates me still as an adult, and with him, my parents just kept him away. I have multiple scars from him, and one of my earliest memories is running around with that cockatoo hanging off my cheek. There are instances where a bird just hates someone, and when it's a child that is the object of a parrots rage, it's probably best to just keep them separated of have the kids admire from a safe distance. My parents had their birds long before they had me, and I ended up with some pretty vicious injuries a lot of people would not be so "tolerant" of an animal inflicting on their kids because the bird was there first. I would look at the good reasons he may be biting (i.e. communication) and work on your kids understanding of Squiggy and Squiggys ability to follow commands. If he is still aggressive, protect your kids. They can coexist in the same home without needing to pet him and upset him.

 

[Jayyj]

With my bird, cupping the hand with the fingers and thumb together and approaching her from above with the aim of ruffling the feathers behind her crest is the safest way for someone to approach her for the first time: generally she's allow it because she likes having head scratches, but if she does decide she doesn't want to be touched she'll still lunge but she'll struggle to grip onto anything and it will feel like more of a headbutt, giving the hand's owner a chance to get it out of harm's way before she gets serious about doing some damage. If the person lets their hand drop anywhere below beak level and she decides to lunge it will be a painful pinch and twist before they know what hit them, and individual digits are very easy targets for a cockatoo beak. It's not a foolproof way not to get bitten, but it seems to work very well, giving her a chance to say 'no' without inflicting any damage.

As far as whether she'll step up for someone she doesn't know, there's just no way to guarantee she won't bite if she's at all nervous of them. Alice likes people to show confidence when handling her, and if an arm or hand is held out for her in a tentative manner she's most likely to bite rather than step up - letting her sit on their knee is a far safer starting point.

 

[SilverSage]

I am thinking along the same lines as Kiwibird, there is a reason this bird is biting, and it may not being one of discipline. 5 weeks is not long at all in the realm of birds settling in. Also, it could very well be that the bird is first trying to tell you or the kids that something about the interaction is not cool - maybe the perch size as has been mentioned, maybe something else. Pay VERY close attention to body language, not just when the bird is with the kids, but all the time. learn to read your bird, how to tell what upsets her, not just "upsets" but what makes her afraid, what makes her mad, etc. Then keep that eye on her when she is with the kids - are they doing something to make her mad or afraid? What about just plain irritated?

Also, try having the kids interact with her without picking her up. get them involved with her training and care. I suggest getting a T-stand at kid level, and encouraging them to give her treats, talk to her, hang out with her, etc without the "holding" issue. Teach THEM to watch for her body language - they are old enough to understand the concept of respect

 

[GIJoe]

Parrots DO pick up on many things, including that children are "different" than adults (and may feel dominant over them). Children also have smaller hands than adults, and simply may be too small to provide a comfortable and stable perch. Have you had your children try offering their arm instead of their hand and see how he reacts to the bigger/more stable perch? Have you explained to them they need to be firm and authoritative when giving the step up command? Have you explained why commands are important (so Squiggy knows and understands whats being asked of him)? Also what body language to watch for that could indicate Squiggy is not in the mood to be petted and that they should respect that? Not trying to grill you (well, ya , I am, but not in a mean way), but these are important points.

Kiwibird hit some good points here in this gruelling, grilling post ... This is the stuff I was looking for.. Perch size, body language, dominance over a little person..... All excellent points that I wasn't aware of!!

I will watch more on her body language and try and cue the kids into that as well... Train them, to work with her... and have better interactions.

Part of my original question though.... Is there a "correction" action used for training?? (hold their beak after an unfriendly bite, tell them "no" sternly(not yelling, just firm), etc...?)

 

[Birdman666]

The other thing is kids often move faster, and their movements are less predictable, therefore, the bird doesn't know what the kid is going to do, so the bird says no.

 

[SilverSage]

As far as "correction" that is on a bird by bird basis, even in the same home as other birds, and it is also on a "case by case" basis even with the same bird. For example, Flick picked up on the word "no" in most things, but not with pinching too hard during snuggles. For that we had to really look into it and figure out what was going on. I decided I didnt think she had ever learned bite inhibition (at least that's what they call it when a dog doesn't know "how hard is too hard," maybe there is another term with birds?) and worked from the idea that she didnt know what was going on. I watched how she reacted if I accidentally did something she didnt like. She would squwak, hit me with her beak (not bite), and then just sit there, so I mimicked it. I would say "ow!" in a high pitched voice, jerk my hand (not hit her, not pull away) and then just sit there with my hand right by her. She learned right away that the only way to make the scritches start again was to give "nice touches" to my hand, and then I would pet her until she pinched too hard, and we would start over.

Many people use cage covering as a correction for screaming, some people grab the beak, some people restrain the bird, it really depends. the one thing that is clear is to never EVER FOR ANY REASON hit your bird. birds do not really understand "punishment" in most cases and will only be hurt and confused by your actions.

 

[Jayyj]

I don't think you should be thinking in terms of punishing the bird when you don't know why she's biting. The most likely reason the bird is biting is because she is not comfortable with the situation presented to her, in which case you want to address the issue of why the bird is uncomfortable, not bully her into submission. First step is working out why she behaves in a certain way, and the second step is working out how to modify the situation so that she doesn't need to bite.

A bird that doesn't want to bite is a happy bird and a good companion - a bird that is fearful of you because you tried to get her to do something she was scared of then punished her when she tried to object is not. I'd strongly suggest looking into positive reinforcement teaining techniques, and maybe some of Barbara Hiedenreich's material on the subject.

There are ways to divert a bite that are worth learning - Alice responds to a sharp 'AP' from me, distracting her for just long enough to get my finger free - as silversage says, it's kind of communicating on her terms, the equivalent of how she lets me know if I try to break up a pin feather that isn't ready. A lot of people rock their arm slightly to momentarily unbalance a bird that is chomping on body parts they shouldn't be. Trouble with things that divert a bite is that they're tactics you learn through experience, so hard for someone to pick up if they're handling a bird for the first time - I really think the answer here is to concentrate on learning how your bird thinks and behaves, and develop a strategy as to how you can work towards a goal of the kids being able to handle her safely.

 

[Kiwibird]

As silversage mentioned, it is a highly individualized issue on what a bird responds best to as an individual. My bird does get corrected. I will use "no" in a firm, authoritative voice and sometimes snap my fingers at him. He does get time outs (i.e. cage covered if he's throwing a screeching tantrum) and while it's been a long time, he used to get a nudge on the beak when he'd chew something he oughtn't chew. But as a headstrong male zon, a more rigid approach to training was necessary.

Cockatoos as a speices tend to be more "emotionally sensitive" than other parrots, and using correction of any kind can lead to a meaner bird. Most do better with strictly positive-reinforcment. In my HONEST assessment here, it sounds like Squiggy is afraid of your kids and whether or not they admit it, they are afraid of Squiggy and it's just a lot of fear feeding off fear. I would strongly suggest the whole family start working on some basic target training with Squiggy to help build a positive relationship, allow everyone (including Squiggy) to be on the same page in regards to commands/interaction, and open lines of positive communication. Just google "target training" on youtube and a bunch of videos outlining the concepts will pop up. Supervised training sessions involving you children will also help build THEIR confidence in being near Squiggy and how to properly interact with him

 

[GIJoe]

Target training....... Cool, I'll looks into that..
Hopefully this will help Squiggs be comfortable and allow Her to be able to enjoy us all!

Thanks y'all!