Conure aggressive on flat surfaces

[Caldwell]

Hello bird lovers far and wide!

I have a few question about some behavior with my conure.

When I got him he was 2 years old and I got him from a breeder. He is perfectly tame and is fine on your finger but if you put him down on something flat then try to pick up him again ( he knows the step up command ) he lowers his breasts and head and sticks his tail up and pecks the ground and if I try to push up against his belly to force a step up I get bit and then he starts pecking the ground again.

I think this is because the previous owners allowed him to sit on their shoulder so I think he thinks he is the dominant bird. How can I correct this?

also sometimes I can pet his cheeks, head and neck and then other times I get bit. when I'm petting him and he likes he likes it, he purrs like a cat. im not sure if that means anything.

 

[DebsFlock]

I think he just wants to keep exploring and you are raining on his parade! I don't think it has anything to do with dominance (the height hypothesis has mostly fallen into disfavor anyway, but shouldering does carry the risk of getting your face bitten).

The purring means what you think it does. The biting when you try probably means "I have better things to do right now" or "you hit a pinfeather, stop it!"

I tend to treat this kind of biting as a case where I didn't read more subtle signs to say that the bird has a different agenda than I do. If my bird indicates he doesn't want to be petted right now, I don't insist on it. OTOH, if I need to pick him up and he doesn't want to, I'll use other tactics. In Scooter's case, threatening to leave the room without him is typically enough to make him decide he'd rather step up, but you may need to find something else, such as a treat that is irresistible. I think trying to physically force the issue by pushing on him is a mistake if it causes a bite reaction. I'll do it sometimes with Scotty who likes to play stupid but is basically yanking my chain, with Scooter I will get bitten, no question. I've been through enough repititions of toughing it out, getting the bird up and wherever I needed him, and then applying numerous bandaids, that I have personally concluded that forcing a GCC, at least my GCC, is not productive. Sometimes the distraction technique works really well. "Oh, look at this pretty rattley thing, wouldin't you like to come over here and see it?" Patience will usually win out in the end, too. But I think you need to figure out what is going to work with your bird. And maybe don't put him down somewhere you can't give him a bit of time to explore. GCCs just want to have fun.

 

[Caldwell]

thanks Debs, tons of useful information. I do have other ways of getting him to step up when he's being bossy like walking away from him a few feet or holding a treat near my hand, its just I'd like him to step up everytime not just when he wants to. I will also try to let him explore a while longer before I pick him up again.]


Also are there any training exercises we could do to build our trust bond? He knows step up and thats about it, I'm teaching him target training right now but should I work on anything else?

 

[DebsFlock]

Target training seems like a really good place to start. The more you can reward something and encourage behaviors, make them fun I think the better off you are.

I have to admit that I am way more casual with my birds than I have been with horses. For one thing, it would be pretty hard for even the Cape to actually gnaw me to death. For another, I was competing with my horse and I wanted us to be a professional team, so there was much more emphasis on consistent behavior and doing things at a specific time, although I was never harsh or severely demanding. With the birds, I'm happy to compromise and let them make more choices for themselves on their own time. So sometimes my methods are a bit idiosyncratic, and they aren't what I'd do if I wanted to run a bird show. For example, Scooter really likes playing under cage paper on his playtop. He'll go under several layers, and chew holes, and drag TP rolls (glue free) in there and chew them up, and he is, in fact, pretty much playing house. If I tried to just pick him up at that moment, he would bite me bloody, I have no question. But, if I first give him a verbal warning, "Time to be a house-bird!" and then carefully lift the paper off him and pick up the TP roll, give him a minute to settle down, and then ask him to step up, he does it politely every time. And I make a big fuss and tell him what a wonderful bird he is -- he loves to provoke drama. I'm sure most professional bird trainers would roll their eyes and laugh, but as long as I can get done what I need to get done, I'm happy to make it more of a compromise.

I don't know if that helps at all... but I'm not using up bandaids at nearly the rate I was when I was trying to be tough!

 

[Caldwell]

Yeah Mikau is the same way with getting under things, it must make them feel secure. He loves going under towels and sheets and pulling them over himself.

I started the target training and hes actually getting the hang of it pretty easily and quickly.

Heres a couple things he does and I'm not sure what to make of it:

First he wants on my shoulder, ALWAYS! like literally I cant wear a shirt when I hold him because he will climb onto my shoulder. he doesn't really bother me up there but sometimes hes hard to get off. sometimes he avoids my hand and runs to my other shoulder.

another thing is half the time when I have him out, he doesn't pay attention to me. For example earlier I held him and he sits on my finger with his back to me and wont turn around unless I really start talking to him.


he also always rubs his beak up and down on my arms and hands. I've heard its a sign of affection but I've also seen him do it where it looks like he's being defensive.

I'm not sure if any of these are problem behaviors but if they are please let me know and thank you for responding with such detail. I've asked questions before and usually get a one sentence reply that isn't even all that helpful lol.

 

[DebsFlock]

You're welcome! I don't see any of those as problem behaviors. I think the beak rubbing is sort of affection/statement of posession/solicitation of affection -- or sometimes beak cleaning. Scooter occasionally does this, and it's never struck me as a negative behavior in any way.

I don't really expect Scooter to pay attention to me for long periods of time. I kind of gave up on formal training with him because he seemed to find a bore. He likes attention and cuddles, but after a certain point he's off and wanting to play. They have fairly short attention spans! Also, teaching them to amuse themselves is useful for those times when you need to concentrate on something else. So I don't mind if I'm giving him head scratches and all of a sudden he's interested in something else. They are busy little birds!

I personally don't have a problem with shouldering, but it's not ideal if they use it as a way to be out and about but not reachable. I'm fortunate that I'm flexible enough to reach pretty much everywhere they can get from there. Scooter has never been problematic and only gets on my shoulder (or my head, which he finds even better yet) when invited. However, our cockatiel, Blanco, was really bad about this when we first got him. He wanted to be out and with us, but he was wary of hands, and seemed to feel that was a good compromise.

IMO the best reason to avoid shouldering is the risk of facial injury, but I choose to risk it because I often need both hands to do stuff! If the birds are going to ride along, they likely have to climb on a shoulder to do it.

Is Mikau fully flighted or trimmed? Blanco was initially fully flighted and it is VERY hard to deal with a shoulder hog that can fly! We did trim him up, we were moving houses and we got him as a flyaway to start with. He's still very fond of my shoulder, but I can get him off without a problem. You can block a non-flighted bird from climbing up and just pick them up and put them back where you want them unless invited. Could take a LOT of repetition before they "get it" though.

 

[Caldwell]

Mikau is clipped for now. I will allow him to be flighted when I feel our trust bond is strong enough so if he feels he is in danger he knows I'm "safe".

Its hard to pet Mikau even though he enjoys it because he chews on me. Like just now before I put him to bed. I held him with his feet on my thumb with my fingers horizontal like I'm holding a pole and with my pointer I was petting his head. He loves it, closes his eyes and rubs on my like a cat but then he chews on my fingers with the side of his beak. literally every time it breaks the skin and holy crap you should see my hands. my hands look like I'm a drug addict because of all the little scabs and bites.

he also will find an imperfection on my skin like a mole or a pimple and clip it right off lol. He opens his beak just barely enough to stick his tongue out and "tastes" me then closes his beak on my skin and it just cuts me like a knife through butter. I don't think hes meaning to do it but I dont know how to stop him. I'm trying not to act like it bothers me but sometimes he literally just sits there chewing on some part my hand until I cant take the pain, and I have a high tolerance for pain.


another weird behavior he has is when I take him to get his wings and nails clipped, after the whole ordeal he is the calmest I've ever seen him. he sits perfectly quiet on my hand and I can pet him anywhere on his face and beak and he wont bite. then slowly day by day after hes gotten clipped he slowly doesn't let me touch him as much. I'm not sure its because hes so tired from the outing or if its because he feels like he's been "put in his place" so to speak by being toweled.

 

[DebsFlock]

I suspect it's more the excitement of the outing. You could try getting him out and about more. I am not a fan of "putting them in their place" or using clipping to reduce their ability to express choice. I think of it more as a safety measure. Mine are kept trimmed so that they can control landings but not get very far.

I think the biting you are describing may be over-enthusiastic allo-preening. This is the one case where I've had some luck with mild punishment (the word used in the behavioral psychology sense, of doing something in response to a behavior designed to reduce the occurrence of the behavior). Scooter would get over-enthusiastic when preening us early after we got him. We had success with saying "be a gentle bird!" in a slightly warning tone and applying a minor "tremble" correction to discourage it. That means to shake slightly, make a little earthquake. At the same time, any time he preened us nicely, we'd tell him very enthusiastically what a good gentle bird he was. This worked extremely well with Scooter for that specific behavior.

 

[Caldwell]

Thank you for all the information Debs, you've been great. If I have any other questions Ill try and ask you if you don't mind because I really like your advice.