Clipped or not

[bonita]

I would like some opinion from the more experienced owners. Both my birds are fully flighted and I always felt it was best. They fly around the house and enjoy it.Lately with the talk about birds going out I wondered if I'm doing the best for them. They don't get out except in a cage and not often. Wondering Bonita Paddy & Emmy

 

[Anansi]

You can always try harness training. I like the Aviator harness, myself. (Too bad Bixby doesn't share my enthusiasm. Lol)

If you order it, just be sure to make the introduction as gradual as they suggest in the video.

If your birds have been flighted all this time and enjoy flying about the house, I wouldn't clip them just to take them outside... especially considering that a clipped bird CAN fly away too, given a good enough wind and enough determination. So that being the case, you'd need the harness anyway.

 

[veimar]

It's a very controversial topic… I had all my birds fully flighted until Pary injured his toe and I couldn't catch him when I needed to. (he wouldn't come to me if he knew he did something bad like chewing his toe to bleed again). So I half clipped them, and it's fine too - he can still fly to the ceiling fan. I think it's all up to the owners responsibility. my birds never fly to windows/mirrors because they learned their lesson while they were still clipped, but I would never let out a new fully flighted bird at home. I always half-clip my new birds and then let them fly after molt.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Yes, as Veimar said, this is one sizzling hot topic. I will kindly ask all participants to keep it civil.

Here are some links for you, Bonita, as this subject has been covered numerous times.

http://www.parrotforums.com/new-mem...o-question-clipping-wings-vs-full-flight.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/19291-clipping-wings.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/3587-clipping-their-wings-unhealthy.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/41983-flighted-vs-clipped-wings.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/35304-clipped-wings-after-being-fully-flighted-almost-year.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/congo-timneh-greys/25893-flighted-clipped.html

 

[Anansi]

Sweet list of links, Wendy!

 

[SilverSage]

Yes, it can be a very heated topic and I think it is very important for us all to realize that each person does what they do out of belief that they are doing the right thing for their bird.

My personal take is that birds are much happier and healthier flighted. Research shows that clipping before fully fledging does permanent damage to the bird, but yours are adults.
I like my birds to have full flight for many many reasons, physical and mental health, safety, etc. I believe in harness training, and I love being able to see my birds enjoying the outdoors, and enjoying safe flight outside, but let me get to a more important point.

Clipping your bird does not keep them from escaping. I have had two birds in my life die due to the misinformed idea that clipping them would make it safe to take them outside, one Quaker and one Cockatiel. Any clip but the harshest, which is cruel and dangerous, will allow a panicked bird with the right gust of wind to fly off, land in a tree, in the road, or in front of a dog. This is especially true of small birds like yours. Both of mine ended up in trees and we're not able to be recovered. A clipped bird is not able to control their flight, and is therefore unable to come back in most cases, even if they want to. Now, many people have lost flighted birds and feel if he hey had just clipped, their bird would be safe and in some cases that is true, but not all. The key, flighted or not, is to have good safety systems in place. For us this involves recall training, locked doors, curtains, and general watchfulness. The birds I lost I lost as a child and teenager when I had no control of the household goings-on. As an adult we have safety protocols in place that allow my fids to enjoy the right to fly, while being kept safe. In my case, as we live with a dog and a cat, my flighted birds are much safer than my clipped birds anyway. I also observe they are healthier, happier, and get along with each other better than clipped birds, as they are better able to avoid conflict.

If you do choose to clip, especially as it sounds like your birds have always been flighted, please use progressions trimming. When a flight end bird suddenly loses the ability to fly they can hurt themselves. Not only that, but the confidence they had in how things work can be broken, causing hem to become phobic and insecure. Progressive clipping is a method where you trim only a couple of feathers at a time, and then give the bird a few days to adjust before trimming more feathers so that the bird is not suddenly plunged into fligtlessness thereby inviting injury and confusion.

Is there a specific reason you have begun to doubt the wisdom of letting your birds fly?

 

[Scott]

All of my parrots are fully flighted, and I am absolutely meticulous in avoiding accidents. That said, I acknowledge to err is human - haven't done so in about 25 years.

My logic is that captive parrots are already deprived of so much innate instinct, albeit most of the current population were hatched under human guidance. Some of my larger parrots don't care to fly, perhaps given their size and room constraints. My Goffins are extremely competent and prolific flyers; never bump into walls or mirrors. OTOH, my Timneh is quite spastic and in fact broke a leg during a panic flight - first accident in his 24 years. It was pinned and healed perfectly, and am willing to allow him continued freedom.

 

[SilverSage]

To add to what Scott said, in y experience most of the birds I have had hurt themselves in a panic have been clipped and unable to control their movement properly. It can happen to a delighted bird, especially one who was clipped before being allowed to fledge like my Flick, but I find it more common in clipped birds.

 

[Terry57]

I have some of my birds clipped, and some are not, depending on the bird. If I feel it is safer for them, then we clip, and it is a light clip (no dropping like a rock).
I think it is a decision that we make as to what is best for each bird. I lost a LSC2 years ago who broke his neck flying into a wall, and he was a good flyer and was several years old. He got spooked one day, and that was it
Only you know your birds, and I know that you will do what's best for them, be it clipping or leaving them flighted

 

[noblemacaw]

I have done both had birds clipped and keeping them fully flighted. I feel it depends on the species and how much exercise the parrot needs. I also think it depends on the owner and their preference and ability to keep parrot safe.

With my RFM I did a lot of research on the species and communicated with a lot of people that have them. RFM's are happier staying flighted. With keeping Valentino flighted I have and continue to train him for recall in case of a escape. RFM's are one of the best flyers out there and I see that Valentino can fly really well. He can hover, fly backwards, roll, fly sideways, watching him takes my breath away.

I also taught Valentino to fly down to me. I never knew this skill has to be learned I just thought parrots knew how to fly down. Took a couple of days for Valentino to understand the concept. This will also help if he escapes and perches up somewhere high. He will not be afraid to fly down to me.

Like a lot of people on here I am trying to harness train Valentino. Unfortunately he was traumatized the first time we used it so I can't even get the thing near him now.

Keeping a parrot free flighted or clipping the wings is a personal choice. Depending on your situation and your parrots either way is going to be alright.

 

[JerseyWendy]

...
My personal take is that birds are much happier and healthier flighted. Research shows that clipping before fully fledging does permanent damage to the bird, but yours are adults.
....

I've been trying hard to keep my tongue in cheek here, but obviously haven't quite succeeded. :54:

Both Niko AND Ripley were clipped (badly) before fully fledging, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with them now.

Niko is 5, and yes, it took almost 3 years until both his wings were fully grown out since he continuously had accidents when the flight feathers were coming in, and they'd break off, often even resulting in blood loss.

He is a VERY skilled flier now. So much so that he can turn on a dime in mid air. He is also VERY social and VERY well behaved, so I'm quite curious as to how exactly he is 'damaged'.

Ripley was 1.5 years when he came to live with me, and since I know where he was raised, I also know he was never allowed to learn how to fly properly. It took less than 6 months for him to grow out his flight feathers, and he's been making excellent use of them ever since. He is equally well behaved and well socialized.

Earlier this year I had a frightening experience with Niko. While out on his playtree he was massively spooked by 'something' and he crashed into my big window badly. A window which he had never crashed into before, a window he 'knew' to avoid. I can only figure in his panic mode he didn't realize there was glass separating him from the great outdoors, but he smashed into so hard, he had a bald spot on his head. I am still counting my blessings that I didn't lose him that very day, as he could have just as easily broken his neck on impact.

I clipped ALL my birds shortly thereafter. Just enough to prevent panic fliers to make it quite THAT far. And we had a fantastic summer, spending lots of time outdoors. None of them held a grudge or showed any signs of stress or other ill effects from being clipped.

By now each one of them is fully flighted once again, and I'm planning on keeping it that way throughout the colder months.

 

[Anansi]

Though my preference has always been for keeping my parrots fully flighted, accounts like Wendy's, Terry's, and Veimar's show why this could never be a simply black and white topic, but rather one liberally shaded in areas of gray.

Fact is, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I keep mine fully flighted, but I am under no illusions about the potential dangers of my choice. As illustrated by Wendy's story, and more tragically by Terry's, a fully flighted bird can get spooked by something and fly into either a window or a wall.

The counter argument to this, of course, is training. Thing is, though, we can never deal in absolutes. Training may help minimize the potential for such accidents, but we must be ever on guard against the temptation to think ourselves, our birds, or our situations above the vague and oft capricious nature of chance. Things happen. No matter how careful we are. No matter how well trained our birds. Things happen.

Seemingly unflappable birds can get unaccountably startled and hurt themselves. Or the most careful of owners could have one careless moment that results in his/her bird getting outside and subsequently getting lost.

Given these risks, I can see why many parronts would choose to clip for the safety of their fids. (And I'm talking about a "good clip", here. A light clip that limits their flight abilities. Not a hard clip that denies your bird anything even resembling flight.)

Now some of you may wonder why someone who has chosen full flight for his own bird seems to be advocating clipping. Lol! But that's not what is happening here at all. What I am saying is that one should understand the potential pitfalls of full flight before choosing one way or the other. It's a choice that should only be made with a full understanding of the inherent risks. A fully informed parront has a better chance of avoiding tragedy, I believe. And one of the most important things to understand is that no person, bird, or situation is infallible.

Now, there are also disadvantages to clipping as well. First, and worst IMO, is the potential for a bad clip. Clipping the flight feathers too short can lead to severe injury. After all, without sufficient flight feathers, a bird will be unable to even slow it's descent in the event of a fall. Such a scenario can easily lead to broken legs, wings, or even keel bones!

Also, there is clipping before fledging. While the issues surrounding this are not insurmountable, (again as evidenced by Wendy's Nikko and Ripley) there are enough examples out there to have convinced me that pre-fledge clipping can potentially have a deleterious effect on a parrots development. The degree to which this becomes a factor depends greatly, I believe, on both the parrot's individual personality and the strength and particulars of his/her relationship with the parront.

Also, and again depending upon the individual personality of the parrot, it can affect their level of aggression. A flighted bird does have more readily available options in the "fight or flight" category than non-flighted. (Though I must point out in all fairness that for some birds, the opposite appears to hold true. Clipping leads to a level of dependence that might lead to the gentling of a previously edgy attitude. Again, no absolutes! Individuals vary!)

And then there is the fact that some previously flighted birds take clipping very badly, psychologically speaking. But again, this is an individual situation. Others adjust without a hitch.

My personal reasons for allowing full flight? For me, the joy that Bixby (yeah, just Bixby. Still haven't been able to convince Maya.) gets from flying about the house makes all the inherent risks worth it. My personal take. I just flight train Bixby every chance I get and prepare him for every conceivable scenario as best I can, all while taking every precaution that I possibly can for his safety. No illusions about the possibility of something still happening. I just do my best to reduce the chances that it will and pray for the best.

 

[bonita]

Thank you all for great input. I guess listening to birdman made me think my birds were missing God given joy of trees and sun.I do have an aviator harness.Paddy resists it Emmy is too small Bonita

 

[Anansi]

I think you should try using a harness... I found I website recently {Parrotlet Harness } which has bird harnesses for small birds {lovebirds- small conures}... Hope this helped

But Bonita, what about this suggestion for smaller harnesses by Birdlover07?