Children and Amazons

[Taw5106]

This weekend family came down and I have 11 nieces and nephews. Three of the girls came to spend the night and meet Buddy, they had not seen him yet. They are 12, 10, and 9. I came close to taking the 10 year old back to her parents and had to have a hard and serious conversation which she laughed off.

When we got home Buddy said Hello and was animated. Before we got to the house I told the girls not to run to the cage, no fingers in the cage, no objects in the cage bars, etc. The 12 and 9 year old listened. The 10 year old (GGGGGRRRRR) got Buddy's attention and he zeroed in on her because she began doing things to agitate him and she was doing it well. Things like sticking her fingers in the cage, throwing things at the cage, running up to the cage, getting as close as she could before stopping. She would do this when I was not in the room (husband was and he talked to her), or wasn't facing Buddy.

I have seen this sneaky behavior with her before but I was so angry last night I told Husband to talk to her because I was going to be too hard on her. Even after he talked to her (it's around 1am now, I won't lay down because she's awake and now I'm keeping a eye on her and Buddy) and I finally had enough and told her one more time and you are getting in the car and I am taking you to your parents. I was so tired I rolled Buddy's cage into my room next to my bed, put him to bed and went to sleep but with the bedroom door open so I could see this one kid.

I woke up to the girls watching TV, rolled Buddy back in the livingroom, made me a cup of coffee, the girls wanted to help make Buddy breakfast so the helped me was fruit and veg, cut up pepper, but it in his bowl and they watched me put his bowl in, rub his head, and lock up the cage. Enter curse words here, I went to the restroom and upon coming out, there is the 10 year old sticking a toy between the bars. I made her get her stuff together and loaded her in the car, she cried. On the way to take her to her parents she pleaded to stay and I told her no, she didn't listen and being mean to animals was not acceptable then reviewed each negative act she did and would ask how would she feel if she was being poked at, things thrown at her, etc. She won't be visiting for a long time.

So after that novel I'm curious how others have dealt with children that seem to be prone to agitating birds. Buddy became so aggressive I locked his cage and tried to reduce the stimuli but Good Lord!!!!

 

[Tosca]

You handled the situation perfectly! Many parents are lenient and do not follow through with threats of punishment. Next time the girl comes, she will be better behaved when visiting your home or anybody else's.

 

[labell]

I look at it like this, I pay my mortgage so that my animals have a roof over their heads as much as for us. Family, friends it wouldn't matter, I have and would escort someone out of my home for being unkind to ANY of my animals.

She is old enough to know better and to follow directions and rules laid out, I would have taken her back after the first warning so you gave her ample opportunity to follow the rules imo.

I have had people say if there is such thing as reincarnation and they came back as an animal they would want to belong to me.
Everyone who knows me knows they are my family, in most cases I love them a whole lot more than most people...bottom line!

 

[Taw5106]

Thanks, today ended on a better note, but there was some uneasiness from her parents. Nothing new, like Tosca pointed out about leniency these two are. We had two of the others this afternoon, they came home with us to get ready for a cook out tonight and met Buddy. One watched the Chipmunk movie and a World Cup game, the other buttered Buddy up and she had him asking for head rubs which is a pleasant surprise. I told her feel honored, he's very picky and if he likes you he really likes you. I was glad to see Buddy be good and behaved, not petrified of a stranger.

 

[Birdman666]

Well, mine are out 24/7, and my playstands are tall enough so that the birds can get away from any children that are annoying them.

BUT, I keep a block of wood that my macaw bit in half handy...

I tell the kids my birds are tame, but if you provoke them, they could bite you. Then I hand them the block of wood, and invite them to squeeze it until it shatters in half.

Then I point out that MY BIRD CAN!

THEN I tell them to keep their fingers out of harms way....

Seems to drive the point home better that way.

And anyone caught teasing one of my birds is OUT! So I would basically do the same thing you did on that score.

 

[Taw5106]

Birdman, very nice!!!! Got any extra blocks your macaw "decorated"? How thick was that block? My husband goes on about Amazons applying 800 lbs of pressure with their beak after he saw the Black Palm Cockatoo could apply 1500 lbs of pressure.

My husband and I agreed no sleep overs for a while with that group of siblings, hate to be that way but no animal should be treated like that. My husband told me I was being too sensitive about it. I went outside and got a stick and through out the evening kept poking him with it while he was watching soccer. He got upset for being poked (like Buddy was) but after we talked about it he agreed I had a point, lol!!!

 

[Birdman666]

It's just an ordinary ABC block. Maggie snaps them in half like twigs... effortlessly. It's as thick as my arm bone, which is another point I tend to stress. Then I hand them to her, after they try and break it. Snap, crack... It definitely leaves an impression! "Now, how much harder and thicker was that block, compared to your finger? THAT'S WHY WE SAY NO TOUCHING! Any questions kids?!"

With a cage bird you add a line to that schpeel... "My bird thinks that things stuck in his cage are his toys, and he plays with his toys by chewing them up... Please don't teach my birds to chew up fingers."

I actually recycle broken toys into foraging/foot toys, so I keep a nutriberry tub of broken blocks on hand. In fact, Tusk has learned to get on the shelf, and open the nutriberry tub to get at the foot toys. So, more often than not, they are scattered across the floor when I get home.

 

[Birdman666]

Birdman, very nice!!!! Got any extra blocks your macaw "decorated"? How thick was that block? My husband goes on about Amazons applying 800 lbs of pressure with their beak after he saw the Black Palm Cockatoo could apply 1500 lbs of pressure.

My husband and I agreed no sleep overs for a while with that group of siblings, hate to be that way but no animal should be treated like that. My husband told me I was being too sensitive about it. I went outside and got a stick and through out the evening kept poking him with it while he was watching soccer. He got upset for being poked (like Buddy was) but after we talked about it he agreed I had a point, lol!!!

Well, speaking from experience on this one. (Not personal experience, thank god!) My red lored, prior to being rehabbed inflicted severe de-gloving injuries on two people...

So, while she didn't have the power to take the finger clean off (like my macaws do!) she was able to strip the flesh off the bone rather easily... and she could definitely send you to the ER for stitches if she felt like it. (Any one of my birds is powerful enough that it could... they just don't.)

And the way you explain it to the parents is exactly that. I don't want to have to take your little girl to the ER for stitches because she didn't listen to me when I told her DO NOT DO THAT! This is a safety issue, and you need to impart to your child that what she is doing could cause someone to be bitten... My bird is not aggressive, but can be MADE aggressive if provoked!

 

[Tosca]

If anybody got injured by a pet, who is liable? Do you think the person who provoked the pet is going to accept that responsibility? With children, the parents are going blame the owner of the pet for negligence because children do not always do what they are told.

 

[Birdman666]

Depends on a lot of variables, including the age of the child, the level of provocation, who had the responsibility for supervising the child.

Those, however, are only mitigating factors. You bring a wild animal into your home, and parrots are generally classified as such, the owner is responsible.

This, of course, depends on the damages. Medical bills for a couple of stitches are only a couple of hundred dollars, which is generally what you would get from a bird bite.

But I have seen amputated fingers and toes, degloving injuries, and two facial reconstruction surgeries (both of the latter were owners, who didn't bite pressure train their birds, and they displacement bit when on a shoulder.)

 

[Taw5106]

I agree with Birdman. Two years ago we had a situation where our bulldog bit a 14 year old in front of me and my husband. She was pinching him on his side. I had told her three times to stop. I called the dog to me and the girl came over about a minute later grabbed a chunk of skin on his side and I hadn't gotten the words out of my my mouth when he reach around and bit her breaking the skin. A trip to the ER, a visit with the law, and 2 weeks quarantine later, the law ruled that the dog was provoked. Gladly, the parents told the girl from day one it was her fault and while we offered to pay the medical bills they said no. Then the week after all that ended, what did the girl try to do to the dog again, pinch him. So I had a hard conversation with her, then got her mother in the room and her mom came unglued. I have no issue telling adults when they are wrong and being blunt but when it comes to kids, I'm always worried about being too hard. Example, one of my dogs I took from some relatives for abuse and told them if they had a problem, call the police I have no problem talking with them.

With Buddy, he was in his cage, it was locked, but I am in control of the environment so that I feel there is liability, and the penance coming to my house is if you can't follow the rules, you can't come over. I talked to the 10 year old's parents last night because they are a little upset about the visit and I told them I wasn't going to pay for their daughter's bad behavior and inability to behave. They were greatly offended. Too bad. See no problem telling them, lol.

 

[Dinosrawr]

I with you, Taw. One day I went to Petland to go buy a few toys, and there was a 10 year old boy poking his fingers into the Eclectus' cage. My boyfriend works there, and the ekkie's name is Royal. Let's just say the staff add a few extra words onto her name. She's very unhappy, isn't receiving the right diet, and hasn't been handled properly and is thus a very, very bitey bird (and unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it - the management has birds and agrees, but policies don't let them budget the appropriate diet for her).

I looked at the boy and told him he was being an idiot and that I was waiting for her to bite his finger into two. I then proceeded to show him a picture of a boy's finger that had been bitten by a CAG that is incredibly gruesome, and said that if he wants to keep provoking her he's more than welcome to, but don't blame the bird when it gets pissed at him for being a fool.

I got a dirty look from the mom, but I probably saved that boy's finger. I don't blame an animal for getting angry when provoked, I blame the child for being a fool. They need to learn how to respect living animals, and they'll either learn the smart way by listening or the hard way by experiencing.

 

[Birdman666]

I try and be diplomatic with parents. It seems to be accepted better when you present it as a "safety issue." Again, my bird is tame and well behaved, but all birds can and will bite if provoked, and certain things can provoke a bird to bite.

I explained this to the kids, and all the other kids followed the rules. Yours did not. It only takes one person to undue the bird's training, and I simply won't have that in my house. Kids will be kids. She will get over it. Perhaps you, the parent, should take this opportunity to have a talk with her about how guests are supposed to behave when they are in other people's houses, and how what she did was unsafe.

Again, this is where the block of wood thing comes in handy. SEE THIS?! That could have been your daughter's finger. I cannot take that chance...

 

[95talongirl]

I think you handled the situation well. At 10, she should know better.

 

[Phlox]

That makes me sad and angry. My daughter is only 3 and she has better pet manners. She's not perfect, I mean she does like to push the cat off the couch, but the cat immediately comes back for more and I think they've both decided its a game.

She knows better than to touch birds without mommy. She does love to talk to Phlox and she calls him Phloxie-Loxie and the bird does flips for her. But she keeps fingers to herself.

And by age 10? That's ridiculous.

 

[randy]

Had the same situation with a young one & my macaw , rainbow nipped a finger just pinching, no blood,however the point was made & no more figers in the cage. Could have been a lot worse but I think my bird was just warning the little boy. He has respect for what his parents say now.

 

[Birdman666]

Had the same situation with a young one & my macaw , rainbow nipped a finger just pinching, no blood,however the point was made & no more figers in the cage. Could have been a lot worse but I think my bird was just warning the little boy. He has respect for what his parents say now.

Macaws, more than all the others, generally have a way of getting their point across quickly...

"Ummm... NO!!!"

My CAG WILL ACTUALLY LOOK YOU IN THE EYE AND TELL YOU POINT BLANK:

"KNOCK IT OFF!"

IF YOU DON'T HE FOLLOWS THAT UP WITH:

"OWWW! THAT HURTS!"

IF YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE IT, YOU GENERALLY REPEAT WHAT THE BIRD JUST SAID AT THAT POINT...

OH YES, HE DOES!!!