Budgie beak diagnosis?

[ster]

This is my new budgie, Jarvie. When I first brought him home exactly 3 weeks ago, I could tell something was off with him, but wasn't sure what. I brought him to a vet after 1 week of having him, and she said she didn't detect anything outstanding and checked his stool under a microscope. To do further tests on the liver, it would cost $150+ and she would have to draw blood. I decided against this and decided to wait it out.

After reading up on the internet a bit, I'm wondering if Jarvie may have fatty liver disesae. The reason is, he is super highly reliant on a millet diet.

I have had all sorts of other foods in his cage (lettuce, broccoli, strawberry, grape, blueberry, melon, nutri-berry, honey seed stick, and typical volkman seed mix), but he only eats the millet, and only when I have it super accessible. He doesn't like to go out of his way to eat very often. He also sleeps a lot... and doesn't move very much. He will occasionally flap his wings and chirp/call, but it's not the usual vitality that budgies have.

Fatty Liver Disease hypothesis: I've read that blood in the beak and overgrown beak could be indicators of fatty liver disease.

If anyone has experience with that ailment, please let me know if it looks similar to what you've seen before. I REALLY don't want to do an expensive blood test that might potentially stress him out He just started sort of settling, and I'd hate to go backwards on the progress we made.

I'm currently in the process of sprouting seeds, so I hope that'll supplement his nutrition. I also have liquid vitamin in his water. Let me know if there's anything else you'd suggest. Thanks much.

 

[Scott]

Welcome to you and Jarvie, he is handsome!

Do you know Jarvie's age? FLD is typically the consequence of poor diet over time, and certain species are at higher risk. I understand your reticence for invasive testing, perhaps efforts to improve nourishment coupled with homeopathic methods will pave the way for cure in absence of diagnosis.

You may search the forum for FLD (Fatty Liver Disease) topics and find discussion of liquid Aloe. Many members describe a specific brand and regimen as effective. Converting Jarvie to a healthier diet will be a challenge but worth the effort: (I realize budgies have unique needs, other members may give specific guidance)
Healthy diet tips: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html

 

[ster]

Do you know Jarvie's age? FLD is typically the consequence of poor diet over time, and certain species are at higher risk. I understand your reticence for invasive testing, perhaps efforts to improve nourishment coupled with homeopathic methods will pave the way for cure in absence of diagnosis.

My guess is he is 3-4 months old, as I've heard that they molt out of their baby feathers at 4 months, and he hasn't quite started molting yet, though I see 3 pin feathers.

Your link didn't work, but I'll look into aloe! Thanks for the tip. In the meantime... I have this broccoli speckled with seed in his cage 5 inches from his face... he hasn't touched it yet :T

 

[GaleriaGila]

In case you need a link to profssional veterinary help...
Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.
International contacts, too.
Or... sometimes I find a place to start just by Googling "avian veterinarian near ((your location))"


This might be helpful, too...
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/85090-covid-19-veterinary-care.html


Welcome.
Pretty young bird.
I'm glad you're here!

 

[Scott]

Do you know Jarvie's age? FLD is typically the consequence of poor diet over time, and certain species are at higher risk. I understand your reticence for invasive testing, perhaps efforts to improve nourishment coupled with homeopathic methods will pave the way for cure in absence of diagnosis.

My guess is he is 3-4 months old, as I've heard that they molt out of their baby feathers at 4 months, and he hasn't quite started molting yet, though I see 3 pin feathers.

Your link didn't work, but I'll look into aloe! Thanks for the tip. In the meantime... I have this broccoli speckled with seed in his cage 5 inches from his face... he hasn't touched it yet :T

Sorry, corrected link above. Here it is: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html

If 3 to 4 months, that's a totally different reality. I know budgies are susceptible to a wide range of issues, unsure if FLD develops so rapidly?

My favorite technique for coaxing a stubborn bird to change diet is to eat interactively and create a game. Prepare two bowls of veggies/fruits, one for you, another for Jarvie. Begin to eat from yours while he is in cage with his, make "mmmm" sounds, bob your head in delight. Birds are flock eaters, and you are a member of Jarvie's flock.

 

[fiddlejen]

I don't think a 3-4 month-old budgie could have fatty liver disease. That should be something that would have to have much more time to develop.

My understanding is that adding vitamins to water is usually Not a good idea. Biggest concern, especially with picky budgies as he seems to be -- the bird might just stop drinking any water. Or drink way less than needed. I bet dehydration could make a bird lethargic and lack appetite... Also if the bird IS drinking the water, chance of too much of a vitamin that he doesn't need, and that could be toxic.

I strongly recommend making sure he has a water dish always available with clear water, either filtered or bottled spring water. (NOT distilled water.)

ALSO don't worry too much about the pickiness. MY picky little budgies for the first half year ate only millet. They would eat around all the other seeds or good stuff in their mix.
If I mixed in a little bit pellets, they would ignore them. If I mixed in more than a little pellets, or added powdered pellets, or any vegetable etc, they would get mad. Miss Calliope-Budgie would toss all non-millet items onto the floor. Mr. Jefferson-Budgie would BANG the dish loudly to complain about the "non-food" items in the food dish.

You mentioned he is currently Not eating veggies & fruits. It took a few months, if I recall correctly, before my budgies would touch veggies. And they did so by way of me clipping them to the walls, so they could treat them as chew-toys. Budgies are suspicious, and will not examine a new toy for a few weeks. So I threw out many lettuce leaves untouched... before they finally decided they Loved them. Eventually I started putting a paperplate in the cagebottom with finely diced veggies. They will chew their own lettuce and nibble their own broccoli tops, but everything else needs chopped as small as millet for them to eat.

Anyways that was quite a while. For the first several months they would only eat millet. They would not eat anything else. So that is OK for your budgie also.

You should make sure he has a dish of seedmix only. Otherwise he might be starving himself. Budgies will starve themselves rather than eating something they consider questionable. Make sure he has a dish with seedmix-only, and a dish of clean pure water. Springwater or filtered water. Nothing added to it.

Make sure you put New Pure Water and New Seedmix Every Day since it can Look un-eaten when really all that's left is shells. He can starve with an apparently full bowl, and dehydrate with perfectly good water if it tastes funny to him.

Then all the other good stuff you're trying to give him, separate it. Put it in a separate small dish, or a small paper plate. They do like to forage. Your broccoli with seeds is gonna be way too intimidating for a picky scared budgie to start with. But once he eventually trusts that he can count on being able to pick his millet from his seedmix, then he might start to look around. And if you've been regularly supplying some loose veggies, he might go exploring for the millet you sprinkled on top, and might find out he likes those broccolitops after all.

Don't give too much produce at once, so you aren't too frustrated by the waste. Let it get familiar to him. Eventually he might nibble it and find that it's not so bad. If you get some healthy pellets to give him for those vitamins (I'd recommend Harrisons Superfine), put them in a small separate dish at first.

But for now, these are really important: Make sure he has a Daily dish with Seedmix-Only, and a dish of clean Pure Water. Springwater or filtered Water. No vitamins in the water, Nothing added to it, fresh every day (or more often).

 

[MonicaMc]

FLD is unlikely, but not impossible, in such a young bird. If he has it, it would be from bad food, toxins, bad genetics or otherwise. Droppings would also be yellow-ish.

I can understand the concern though as the beak does not look normal for a young budgie.

I would say that he's also molted out a few feathers, but has not gone through a full first molt at this point in time.

 

[ster]

Thank you everyone for your ideas and suggestions. I no longer put vitamin in his water, and I made sure to fill his seed dish to the top with pure seed so he can easily access it. Honestly though, it's been 3 weeks and a day... and he's soooo resistant to eating. Even millet, he resists.
I do think he has a liver problem, as other images of budgie's I've seen with liver problems have similar looking colors in the beak, though Jarvie's is not too severe yet. I wonder if it is genetics That would be sad. I'll be honest and admit that the shop I got him from didn't look very clean. This whole thing is distressing, as I want him to live a LONG long life.
I takes a great deal of patience to watch him not eat... I miss the healthy vitality of Jarvie even though I haven't seen it yet. He has the most gentle, stubborn spirit.
Anyway, I'll just marathon this diet-change. <3 I can't wait until his flight feathers come in so he can fly and exercise.

eta: I crushed up some pellet into powder and rolled a millet stick into it to see if he would accidentally eat some pellet powder. He wouldn't touch the millet that I held up to him! He normally would. The look of suspicion on his face... is utterly too adorable. He will eat the millet with less pellet powder... so I'll just do less pellet powder for now.

 

[MonicaMc]

Take that powder dust and mix 50/50 with his seed mix, then add enough water to it to make a thick paste. You can then make little "balls" or "cakes" with the 'dough' and feed to your budgie. As your budgie eats the seeds, he'll be trying the pellets as well.

Unfortunately, without tests, there's no way to tell if he has any health issues or not.... and they are rather expensive!