Breeder/seller method of holding

[LordTriggs]

So looking through different ads for birds I find a lot of them with pictures like this

I just wanted opinions on this. It doesn't feel right to me, especially when they say the birds are tame. That don't look tame to me nor cared for.

I just wanted to get other's opinions. Like I say my gut says it's wrong which I'm primarily sticking with

on a side note man southern UK sucks! I either having to travel into central london or to the other side of London to find birds for sale!

 

[clark_conure]

I honestly........Crap man......I haven't like shopped for birds online, but if I saw a bird being pickup up this way someone might get punched in the neck. Or held by the neck.... this is common?

 

[LordTriggs]

I honestly........Crap man......I haven't like shopped for birds online, but if I saw a bird being pickup up this way someone might get punched in the neck. Or held by the neck.... this is common?

more than I would like it to be. It isn't every ad but quite a lot. The UK isn't the greatest for Parrot care. After the avian flu epidemic people out here stopped getting pet birds. So many shops closed up and vets are scarce. there's one for the entirety of london

 

[clark_conure]

I don't know what to say, I wouldn't buy from anyone with an ad like that just because they would be profiting from it. On the other hand you could help the bird, but if you bought the bird they would just continue the cycle.

I'd stay away from any ad like that on principle.

 

[LordTriggs]

I don't know what to say, I wouldn't buy from anyone with an ad like that just because they would be profiting from it. On the other hand you could help the bird, but if you bought the bird they would just continue the cycle.

I'd stay away from any ad like that on principle.

yeah. It's sickening.

here's a load of blue and gold's. Looks better but I hope they were just put like that for a picture

It's so upsetting to see, most sold here are for breeding and it's just not right. There's one person I spoke to who had baby conures a couple months back but I wasn't ready for another then, I hope they get a batch next year because they treated the babies so well and let people visit whenever they wanted

 

[Kiwibird]

Grasping behind the head like that gives you control when you need to restrain them yet prevent them from biting (such as being examined by a vet or having grooming done). It looks horrendous (hubby restrains Kiwi that way for nail trimming) but doesn't hurt them and in fact keeps them more protected from injury while being restrained. All that photo shows is lack of towel. This is also the proper way to restrain larger reptiles (behind the head). Here is a vet explaining the technique:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF8-dW42ipM"]Parrot Restraint - YouTube[/ame]

I cannot say I understand why a breeder would present a baby bird for sale like that, as it really does the bird no justice, but it isn't a cruel practice and a bird who's ever examined by a vet is going to be held like that at some point.

As for the baby macaws in plastic tubs- to my knowledge, it is fairly standard for very young babies to be housed in bins like that. In nature, that would be about the size of their nest, they feel more comfortable with nest mates (that too is natural) and the photo you've posted in particular looks as though they are being kept clean and the birds appear quite healthy.

 

[clark_conure]

I'm ok with the bin thing,seen that before it's fine. But in the first picture he's literally holding him up by his neck, no towel, no lower support on the feet. Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I just don't like. When i clip my birds wings and such, I hold him, but not vertically by the neck.

 

[LordTriggs]

Grasping behind the head like that gives you control when you need to restrain them yet prevent them from biting (such as being examined by a vet or having grooming done). It looks horrendous (hubby restrains Kiwi that way for nail trimming) but doesn't hurt them and in fact keeps them more protected from injury while being restrained. All that photo shows is lack of towel. This is also the proper way to restrain larger reptiles (behind the head). Here is a vet explaining the technique:

Parrot Restraint - YouTube

I cannot say I understand why a breeder would present a baby bird for sale like that, as it really does the bird no justice, but it isn't a cruel practice and a bird who's ever examined by a vet is going to be held like that at some point.

As for the baby macaws in plastic tubs- to my knowledge, it is fairly standard for very young babies to be housed in bins like that. In nature, that would be about the size of their nest, they feel more comfortable with nest mates (that too is natural) and the photo you've posted in particular looks as though they are being kept clean and the birds appear quite healthy.

Thanks for that! I know very little on that side of things so it doesn't exactly look nice. The Blue and gold's did look to be in a better condition but again not used to seeing it so pile of big birds on top of each other is a little distressing to see. I don't understand why people don't put 5 minutes into getting a nice picture. You're more likely to get the bird sat happily on a perch than held like that and would be far nicer for a buyer to see a picture of each B&G on their own. Maybe I'm crazy though, it's not unheard of

 

[Kiwibird]

I cannot be sure, but I think being a smaller bird, the pinky and ring finger of a large hand may provide adequate support of the abdomen. I have never had to restrain a bird smaller than an amazon though and have never learned proper technique for smaller birds, so I could be wrong.

 

[LordTriggs]

also I'll add that that video has sold me on not being in the room when a vet examines a bird of mine! Makes me so tense and upset for them

 

[Kiwibird]

Obviously, much depends on the individual, but when Kiwi was newer to us we would take him to a bird store for grooming by the very gentle and experienced owner. Poor guy would fight so hard with the man he'd screw up his feathers and just extremely stressed out/terrified being restrained by an untrusted stranger. The owner eventually taught us how to properly restrain him to see if he did better with someone familiar. He barely even squirms when hubby holds him like that (I clip the nails), we don't bother with a towel and it makes trimming his nails a quick, easy and stress free task to just do it at home. Obviously if he needs to see the vet, he's gotta see the vet and be examined as needed, but for grooming, we do it ourselves and he's a lot less distressed being restrained by someone he knows (wings we don't even have to restrain him for anymore). My moms GCA was similar before he passed. She could hold him in her bare hands, no towel while the vet examined him, but as soon as he was passed to a stranger and toweled, he became much more frightened/distressed. Some birds do better being restrained by a familiar and trusted human.

And yes, when birds are older juveniles and adults, they need a ton of room but as babies they like being together more. When a parrot lays eggs in nature and rears their young, they are typically confined 2-3 in a nest which becomes increasingly tighter as the babies grow until they are ready to fledge. I would imagine (not a breeder, just common sense) a baby bird likely feels happier and more secure with it's brothers or sisters until it reaches weaning/fledging age.

 

[Laylatoo]

Back in my registered vet tech days, this is how we'd restrain little birds for procedures. Not a good way to advertise sweet, hand tamed babies though. I'm guessing the intention was to show underside color. To the viewer it seems uncomfortable and like he grabbed up some poor defenseless non tame bird for the photo. Bad judgement call on the breeders part.

 

[clark_conure]

THANK YOU Laylatoo. I see the pinky on the bottom of the abdomen now and all that; but yeah...I still wouldn't buy from that guy. I was just petting my birds neck and was like can I....NOPE he was like no you pick me up regular or not at all.

I understand and have seen newborns being handled and fed with syringes and all that and being used to being handled, but yeah it's an uncomfortable pose to see and according to Clark its a no touchy proposition.

 

[LordTriggs]

fair enough! At least it's just sellers having poor judgement of advertising as opposed to cruelty. I still think anyone holding a tame bird in that manner may not be entirely honest

My eternal search shall continue in this vast desert of southern england

 

[Laylatoo]

I also wouldn't buy from a breeder that advertised this way either. Shows nothing for tameness and trust from the babies. One could only assume if that's the only photo showing the baby that it isn't hand tame at all.

fair enough! At least it's just sellers having poor judgement of advertising as opposed to cruelty. I still think anyone holding a tame bird in that manner may not be entirely honest

My eternal search shall continue in this vast desert of southern england

 

[SilverSage]

The actual method of restraint is not cruel, and is quite common and safe for both bird and handler.

BUT

I sure wouldn't buy from
A breeder who presented his "tame" birds that way! If it was a wild bird I can understand it, but why not just pick up a tame baby in a non restraining way?


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[Aquila]

The neck is the strongest area on the body, and that's definitely a restraint hold, but done slightly incorrectly from the way my vet does it. Usually it's on either side of the head, kind of "cupping" the head in a way, holding on either side of the beak closer to the ears, not holding the front where the throat is. This is done because you don't want to put pressure around the body and restrict breathing, but I've always seen the other hand supporting the body anyway.

This is a link to a pdf of a proper restraint hold.
http://www.avianwelfare.org/shelters/pdf/NBD_shelters_parrots.pdf

 

[Kentuckienne]

That's what I read - parrots have bones protecting the throat, so that part of the body is quite strong, and the risk is in toweling or restricting the body too tightly, because the bird can't breathe if you do.

 

[Kiwibird]

For people who may read this thread in the future who are new to birds, just wanted to add every owner should at least know how and be comfortable with restraining their bird safely. Even if you always have the vet do grooming, in emergencies it is better to already know how to do it. Say a blood feather breaks. You aren't necessarily going to have enough time to get the bird to a vet before they bleed out and will have to pull the broken blood feather at home yourself and then administer basic first aid before contacting the vet. Or if your parrot is injured and needs immediate treatment with styptic powder to stop bleeding and an antiseptic applied to the wound to prevent infection from setting in while the wound is fresh. Another thing that will likely need to be done first before contacting/getting in with a vet.

Having a panicked, bleeding bird in pain and a panicked, concerned human trying to help said bird is not going to be fun to try your hand at restraint for the first time. Learn on a healthy bird and learn proper restraint for every size bird in your flock!

 

[Katu]

I've never seen an advert like that! I hate to see things like this. All the ads here are just generic birds on perches. I found a breeder on my own. She doesn't even advertise at all, and all her babies are spoken for. It's hard to find a breeder to trust. Too many people out there just churning out these birds for money and not caring beyond that. It's sad.