Biting the hand that feeds them...

[MissMac]

Biting. I've seen all the reasons why a bird might bite, why a dog might bite, why a pet tiger might bite but in all honesty, we really don't know... it's not like they can tell us why they did it so we leave it to "professionals" to give us THEIR opinion on why they bite.... sorry but we are all animals and we all need to live in harmony with one another and I don't think ignoring them, when they have done something wrong, is actually teaching them anything. If they are going to bite you because they wanted to be left alone - doesn't that show them they got their wish by doing so?
We, and I will get hated and possibly blasted for this but... we shouldn't have to excuse any bad behaviour. How is ignoring bad behaviour teaching a bird that what they did was wrong? Are we talking about a bird that bites ALL the time, so the lesson of ignorance will actually happen often enough for the bird to learn that biting isn't accepted?
What if your bird only does it occasionally at most? Are they going to learn that you are ignoring them to teach them a lesson? I mean really?
Sorry but if my dog bit me like this, people will be saying get it put down, it's dangerous. But if a small parrot did this??? What if it were a larger parrot? No, this is not acceptable in any sense of the word, and ignoring them after biting, is not the solution to teaching them to not bite. I don't know what the solution is but ignoring them is NOT the solution.
Missy, the Indian Ringneck bird I hand fed from 5 weeks old. The bird I would wake up for, during the night to check on her and to reheat her water bottle. I had her in her box on my bedside table just so I could see if she was okay. This is the bird who led to my recent break down when she walked out of the house.... walked....not accidentally flew because she can't fly thru the fly curtains but she can walk, for 6 days and cost me a small fortune in everything I did to get her back because I not only loved her but I worried about her.... this is from Missy and I am furious.
It is not acceptable. I am ignoring her but tell me again how she will learn to not bite me if I ignore her.

 

[Laurasea]

Aww ouch.
Its complicated there are so many reasons that lead to bites. But successful bites are when we didn't read them.

I received a bloody bite to the knuckle today from my sweetest most gentle laid back girl Pikachu. Entirety my fault. I wasn't paying attention. I was re arranging Penny's cage her best buddy, and she climbed in to defend her freinds stuff. Quakers are highly territorial.

I don't know how often you are being bitten ? Whst situation ? Never fun, causes an emotional reaction and who wants pain, I feel for you.
Punishment is not the answer. As obnoxious as it sounds , avoid, do not put your bird in a situation that a bite is all you will notice, read body language, don't force or push behavior.

5 Biting Parrot Tips: How to Stop Biting from BirdSupplies.com

5 Tips On How To Stop A Biting Parrot. Whether your experienced you are with birds or not, a biting parrot is upsetting. Check out these biting parrot tips.

birdsupplies.com

 

[Gemster]

Unfortunately, as science states, the more a behaviour is rehearsed, the more likely it is to repeat in the future due to myelination; which is why ignoring behaviour or punishment (in the grand scheme of things) does not work.

If an animal is biting out of fear, you’re not respecting boundaries and/or your relationship is not strong enough. If you bowl feed your birds food, start hand feeding each individual seed/pellet/veg fruit piece whatever they’re eating one at a time.
For days when you don’t have time, put their meals in foraging toys (store bought and hand made: get creative). You can also spread food around their environment to encourage them to explore and forage. Simple foraging toys will teach your birds how to learn and how to use their minds which will amplify training results. Also, allowing animals to work for their food increases food motivation and drive to work for you when training.

If a bird is simply play biting or due to another reason that is not influenced by your behaviour, using the easy formula for all unwanted behaviour will solve the problem. (I used this with Gemma as her play biting included a sharp strong beak which would break skin, otherwise I wouldn’t mind)

TRAIN - as mentioned at the beginning of the post, once a behaviour has started and there is a reinforcement history, there is no going back. You can’t unwind myelin. However, you can build another pathway, something that’s stronger than the unwanted behaviour. If you don’t want biting (in this instance) create another behaviour. I just wanted to teach a closed mouth behaviour so I set up 30 second to 1 minute training sessions where I would set her up for success. She liked to chew my fingers as soon as they were in reach, so I would outstretch my hand just far enough away from her that she couldn’t reach and clicked, gave a treat. As much as she wouldn’t be able to bite my hand even if she tried, she wasn’t trying. That was the behaviour I was aiming for, so why push her to failure. I could start 2 metres away from her if I had to. Eventually I would move closer and closer.

REINFORCE- in moments when you catch your bird not biting or not doing the unwanted behaviour, click and reward.

MANAGEMENT - prevent the undesirable behaviour and prevent it from becoming any stronger than it already is. I knew Gemma would bite my fingers if I left them near her too long so I had short interval hand interactions with her to prevent the nips and if I wanted to transport her somewhere using my hand I would distract her, sometimes using food to shift her focus.

Any time the undesirable behaviour occurs positively interrupt (with a trained cue or attention noise) the action and give the bird something acceptable to do. (ie. Give them a toy to chew [something that was already available in the environment as you may be teaching them to preform the undesirable behaviour in order to get a toy that they want])
If she bit me, I rolled up some newspaper, tightly, and started hitting myself on the head. Jk. I failed Gemma. It isn’t my responsibility to tell her she did something wrong because she didn’t do anything wrong, she’s a caique, she uses her beak to play. Same way all birds use their beaks to communicate their discomfort. It’s our responsibility to help them feel comfortable, to guide them to how we want them to be a bird in a life where both the owner and the parrot cooperate happily.
Happy training

 

[MissMac]

If you bowl feed your birds food, start hand feeding each individual seed/pellet/veg fruit piece whatever they’re eating one at a time.

I hand raised her... what is the point of hand feeding her?
This particular bite came out of no where, which is probably why I reacted so strongly. This bite came from the one, that sees me as Mum and follows me wherever I go - even if I go to the toilet... she follows me, works on whatever I am working on and so forth. Basically she is attached to me. I know when she gets cranky and I know the signs, which again, is why I reacted so strongly and it surprised me so much.
What do you mean when you say "you can't unwind myelin"?
I made a big mistake, when following a suggestion from another parrot owner, in letting Missy be involved in making the chop. She now thinks she should be involved with all food prep, for her, for the dogs or for me, it doesn't matter... she sees it as she should be involved. It is becoming a battle to eat with her in the room... she wants in on it and I don't know how to train her to NOT be involved with preparing food or my eating of food. Ever since I got her back after her 6 day jaunt into the wide open world, she has been overly interested in food.... to the point it worries me.... and it has been a month since I got her back.

 

[Laurasea]

parrots are flock creatures, as such they always stay with flock. Flocking instinct is part of their DNA . They pair bond.
Hand feeding reinforcee bonds, builds trust postive associations. Relationships are continuous work .
You had a mom, but I imagine you see yourself as an independent now not a dependent. You have your own ideas of self, and personal boundaries

Our keeping them and expecting them to be alone is unnatural.

Her escape she starved, and critters that have starved before do focus on food.

You are describing what most of think as normal parrot behavior.

If you dont want her to share your food, make a plate and station for her, or cage her while you eat.

Food prep. Set her up for success with a high value food item ( apple slice?)and her own perch to watch the action and supervise. Keep rewarding her for staying put. Make a routine maybe listening music while you do food prep. There are always a lot of different solutions focus on trying to find one that works for you , and not on why they won't/don't. Remembering/training yourself to take that mind set and a dash of humor makes it easier to navigate challenges.

On the bite, did you have time to read the article? Reflect, log, learn.

Are you seeking solutions? Or just wanting to vent about the difficulties of keeping parrots? Sometimes I have to vent. Like 3 parrots ago the mess didn't seem like a big deal, but keeping up with 6 is exhausting

 

[MissMac]

parrots are flock creatures, as such they always stay with flock. Flocking instinct is part of their DNA . They pair bond.
Hand feeding reinforcee bonds, builds trust postive associations. Relationships are continuous work .
You had a mom, but I imagine you see yourself as an independent now not a dependent. You have your own ideas of self, and personal boundaries

Our keeping them and expecting them to be alone is unnatural.

Her escape she starved, and critters that have starved before do focus on food.

You are describing what most of think as normal parrot behavior.

If you dont want her to share your food, make a plate and station for her, or cage her while you eat.

Food prep. Set her up for success with a high value food item ( apple slice?)and her own perch to watch the action and supervise. Keep rewarding her for staying put. Make a routine maybe listening music while you do food prep. There are always a lot of different solutions focus on trying to find one that works for you , and not on why they won't/don't. Remembering/training yourself to take that mind set and a dash of humor makes it easier to navigate challenges.

On the bite, did you have time to read the article? Reflect, log, learn.

Are you seeking solutions? Or just wanting to vent about the difficulties of keeping parrots? SometimesIhaveto vent. Like 3 parrots ago the mess didn't seexhausting

Sorry Missy is helping me type... but yes I have read the article and Missy isn't alone.... She has Gracie for company now and has had since she was brought back home., making up a plate would have to be for both of them.... they have their food but Missy just wants whatever I am eating. If I were to eat their food, she would eat it but only for as long as I am eating it.
I don't need to vent as we all know the issues we face, I am just a0skng fo/r *help.. sorry... Missy once again.

 

[Skarila]

Parrots are VERY different from dogs. They should not be compared at all...

You must understand they are still exotic animals, far from being domesticated, and parrot's way of comunicating is often with their beak. Parrots mainly will always bite for a good reason, be it out of fear (as it was mentioned, you're not respecting their space/boundries and they do not see different way to make you go away if they cannot escape), to "protect" you from a thing that is scary (so you move away from the scary thing), aggression (jealousy, not liking you, protecting their mate), learning how hard the bite is (young parrots need to be taught how strong nip is acceptable, this is still their way of comunicating), the bluffing (IRNs are notorious for this, they bite because they are testing you, yes they are little a-holes)

The ignoring part works only if the bird wants to be with you. If it bites you to go away, then simply ignoring is not going to do anything.

You must try to assess the reason of biting. For example, I learned Pascal started biting my hand because he wants attention. In this case I do let him know that it hurt, I put him away in another room. Once he behaves well, he gets my undivided attention. I have to admit it did curb the behaviour quite a bit. Also he started biting if he really wants to be alone and doesn't want interaction. If I press him, he will bite. I have no right to scold him - it is my own fault I got bitten.

Another thing can be some items trigger the biting. My IRN Zeleni was obsessed with cuttlery and would go CrAZY if I try to grab my mug to drink coffee or grab a spoon or anything, he would go right to devour my hand. The only solution was - you guessed it - make sure he isn't near while I do it. I had to turn away or distract him with something else if I wanted to use those items. Same thing goes to our Senegal Aina (who has a MUCH stronger beak, these birds can fracture your finger bone, don't let their size fool you!) also attacks on sight of small medicine boxes or bottles, or even paper. We already learned to do it hidden. If i want to take the medicine, my partner must hold her/distract her/put her into another room for me to do my thing. And this is ok.

We must adjust to the parrots, not the way around. This is the trickiest part with birds. Very hard the bird will adjust to you. You must be smart. A lot of issues can be solved by distracting.

As mentioned in previous replies, parrots are flock animals, they want to do everything you do! If you're eating something, they want it too! Involve them in your food prep, why not? Great advice was to give her a high valued treat like the slice of apple. I do exactly the same if Pascal is with me in the kitchen. To keep him from tearing down my kitchen, I let him sit on the shelf, give him his slice of apple, which gives me enough time to prepare the food for him, or make myself coffee. If he misbehaves, no apple, and goes straight back to the other room and he can cry all he wants. By time, he learned to sit calmly and watch, in anticipation he gets his favourite treat. afterwards I just wipe off his mess and go on with my life.

I know it can be difficult when the bird wants to touch and try everything you do. recently I was working with Fimo (baking dough that turns into plastic), which is surely not parrot safe, and Pascal always wanted to try and see what I'm doing. Painting time, here he is. I always had to distract him with few pieces of toys he likes chewing on. Yes, I had to shoo him sometimes, and relentlessly i always placed him back on my shoulder. once he stay put, he got his treat.

Pascal always wants the food we eat, he started flying directly to my hand if i have a cookie. I will share it with him if it is safe for him, if not, i send him off and I eat my thing. Often I will share my food with him (rice, pasta, potato, egg whites..), if he is not allowed to eat any more, he doesn't get it anymore. He does give up after a while and will go and start eating his pellets instead. My old IRN was even worse - he would jump into my plate, or even steal the whole chicken drum from my partner (that was hilarious to be honest), and beg and scream until he got what he want. Issue was - he wasn't brought up well and at age of 20smth is very hard to break the habit, so it's good to start while the bird is young and still learning.

I hope these tiny stories gives you some ideas that you might implement into your routine, or simply try to understand your feathery friends more... They are so unique and they truly need years to be able to understand them, even now after quite a few birds in my care, I am still learning and dealing with new issues every day!

 

[Laurasea]

Missymac
You have 2 gorgeous IRN and they want to interact with you. That's a huge win!!
This is a species that doesn't like touching as much , and even tame bonded ones can be fearful spooked by hands.

Gemster and Skarila gave you good advice.

Break down and work on issues one at time

 

[MissMac]

Parrots are VERY different from dogs. They should not be compared at all...

You must understand they are still exotic animals, far from being domesticated, and parrot's way of comunicating is often with their beak. Parrots mainly will always bite for a good reason, be it out of fear (as it was mentioned, you're not respecting their space/boundries and they do not see different way to make you go away if they cannot escape), to "protect" you from a thing that is scary (so you move away from the scary thing), aggression (jealousy, not liking you, protecting their mate), learning how hard the bite is (young parrots need to be taught how strong nip is acceptable, this is still their way of comunicating), the bluffing (IRNs are notorious for this, they bite because they are testing you, yes they are little a-holes)

The ignoring part works only if the bird wants to be with you. If it bites you to go away, then simply ignoring is not going to do anything.

You must try to assess the reason of biting. For example, I learned Pascal started biting my hand because he wants attention. In this case I do let him know that it hurt, I put him away in another room. Once he behaves well, he gets my undivided attention. I have to admit it did curb the behaviour quite a bit. Also he started biting if he really wants to be alone and doesn't want interaction. If I press him, he will bite. I have no right to scold him - it is my own fault I got bitten.

Another thing can be some items trigger the biting. My IRN Zeleni was obsessed with cuttlery and would go CrAZY if I try to grab my mug to drink coffee or grab a spoon or anything, he would go right to devour my hand. The only solution was - you guessed it - make sure he isn't near while I do it. I had to turn away or distract him with something else if I wanted to use those items. Same thing goes to our Senegal Aina (who has a MUCH stronger beak, these birds can fracture your finger bone, don't let their size fool you!) also attacks on sight of small medicine boxes or bottles, or even paper. We already learned to do it hidden. If i want to take the medicine, my partner must hold her/distract her/put her into another room for me to do my thing. And this is ok.

We must adjust to the parrots, not the way around. This is the trickiest part with birds. Very hard the bird will adjust to you. You must be smart. A lot of issues can be solved by distracting.

As mentioned in previous replies, parrots are flock animals, they want to do everything you do! If you're eating something, they want it too! Involve them in your food prep, why not? Great advice was to give her a high valued treat like the slice of apple. I do exactly the same if Pascal is with me in the kitchen. To keep him from tearing down my kitchen, I let him sit on the shelf, give him his slice of apple, which gives me enough time to prepare the food for him, or make myself coffee. If he misbehaves, no apple, and goes straight back to the other room and he can cry all he wants. By time, he learned to sit calmly and watch, in anticipation he gets his favourite treat. afterwards I just wipe off his mess and go on with my life.

I know it can be difficult when the bird wants to touch and try everything you do. recently I was working with Fimo (baking dough that turns into plastic), which is surely not parrot safe, and Pascal always wanted to try and see what I'm doing. Painting time, here he is. I always had to distract him with few pieces of toys he likes chewing on. Yes, I had to shoo him sometimes, and relentlessly i always placed him back on my shoulder. once he stay put, he got his treat.

Pascal always wants the food we eat, he started flying directly to my hand if i have a cookie. I will share it with him if it is safe for him, if not, i send him off and I eat my thing. Often I will share my food with him (rice, pasta, potato, egg whites..), if he is not allowed to eat any more, he doesn't get it anymore. He does give up after a while and will go and start eating his pellets instead. My old IRN was even worse - he would jump into my plate, or even steal the whole chicken drum from my partner (that was hilarious to be honest), and beg and scream until he got what he want. Issue was - he wasn't brought up well and at age of 20smth is very hard to break the habit, so it's good to start while the bird is young and still learning.

I hope these tiny stories gives you some ideas that you might implement into your routine, or simply try to understand your feathery friends more... They are so unique and they truly need years to be able to understand them, even now after quite a few birds in my care, I am still learning and dealing with new issues every day!

Yes it's all a learning curve. I've never had this issue before as all my other parrots were perfectly behaved compared to Missy.
I've sadly stopped doing my art work, as getting Missy to leave alone was just too much of a battle. I am now also having to remove my art work from the main living area of the house as again, she simply won't leave it alone. I have been rewarding her when she does as asked, sometimes with a treat and sometimes with high praise, and I know she is testing just how far to go with it, but I can't keep letting her damage all my hard work. It's so sad really... My art, and creating my art, is a huge part of me and now it is... well, gone - maybe not forever, I hope, but it's gone for now. Instead my creativity is used up on creating their toys. My house, the main living part, is now barren of everything I enjoy/ed. It's really quite sad.
I can only hope that as they mature they won't be so disrespectful(?) to my work... I think tho, expecting them to play, and chew, and basically destroy, their toys and NOT my "toys", is not going to be easy for them to distinguish between the two.
Again I can only hope that with maturity this won't be such an issue.

 

[Laurasea]

I do have a lot of empathy for you and such a desire to help. From the bites, to food prep and now on to your art, clearly unhappy. But it seems that help will be better coming from other members .
Wishing you the best