Behavioral Problems.

[PrincessMelody]

Hi all,

So about 7 years ago, my girlfriend's family purchased a bird. After about 3 or 4 years, he suddenly bit my girlfriend's lip, and he was put away. Every day after that, though, he was routinely tried to be taken out to no avail for about two weeks to a month - he would lunge or bite people again. My girlfriend has made some progress in the sense that she can pet his head through the cage at random times depending on the day. We've also thought of moving him to the living room, as that's the most people-filled area, but have not yet. I've read online that most people have this issue due to seasonal changes or at random times of the day, but this seems to be permanent as we haven't been able to take him out due to the lip-biting incident. As far as I'm aware, we haven't changed any patterns. Her family took him out every day, or at least every other day, or spoke with him. He's been in her grandmother's bedroom for the majority of the time they've had him, and he was also in there for the time that he was friendly. I've also read that this is a common hormonal shift for a year or two, but this has been going on for at least 3, if not longer. I hope we can get some help, as we miss playing with our little bird friend.

Thank you!

 

[noodles123]

Hi all,

So about 7 years ago, my girlfriend's family purchased a bird. After about 3 or 4 years, he suddenly bit my girlfriend's lip, and he was put away. Every day after that, though, he was routinely tried to be taken out to no avail for about two weeks to a month - he would lunge or bite people again. My girlfriend has made some progress in the sense that she can pet his head through the cage at random times depending on the day. We've also thought of moving him to the living room, as that's the most people-filled area, but have not yet. I've read online that most people have this issue due to seasonal changes or at random times of the day, but this seems to be permanent as we haven't been able to take him out due to the lip-biting incident. As far as I'm aware, we haven't changed any patterns. Her family took him out every day, or at least every other day, or spoke with him. He's been in her grandmother's bedroom for the majority of the time they've had him, and he was also in there for the time that he was friendly. I've also read that this is a common hormonal shift for a year or two, but this has been going on for at least 3, if not longer. I hope we can get some help, as we miss playing with our little bird friend.

Thank you!

He was probably hormonal and now is cage-bound (a real psychological issue for birds)....Not the best way to handle a bite (although, I know, hindsight is 20/20).
A bird should always be kept in the most active room in the house, so unless grandma is a real party gal, this bird is probably very bored. When you manage to get him back out, pet only on the head and DO NOT allow him into any shadow-like areas or dark spaces. If you have any huts/tents/boxes/tubes in the cage (cloth or other), remove them right away.

 

[PrincessMelody]

Hi all,

So about 7 years ago, my girlfriend's family purchased a bird. After about 3 or 4 years, he suddenly bit my girlfriend's lip, and he was put away. Every day after that, though, he was routinely tried to be taken out to no avail for about two weeks to a month - he would lunge or bite people again. My girlfriend has made some progress in the sense that she can pet his head through the cage at random times depending on the day. We've also thought of moving him to the living room, as that's the most people-filled area, but have not yet. I've read online that most people have this issue due to seasonal changes or at random times of the day, but this seems to be permanent as we haven't been able to take him out due to the lip-biting incident. As far as I'm aware, we haven't changed any patterns. Her family took him out every day, or at least every other day, or spoke with him. He's been in her grandmother's bedroom for the majority of the time they've had him, and he was also in there for the time that he was friendly. I've also read that this is a common hormonal shift for a year or two, but this has been going on for at least 3, if not longer. I hope we can get some help, as we miss playing with our little bird friend.

Thank you!

He was probably hormonal and now is cage-bound (a real psychological issue for birds)....Not the best way to handle a bite (although, I know, hindsight is 20/20).
A bird should always be kept in the most active room in the house, so unless grandma is a real party gal, this bird is probably very bored. When you manage to get him back out, pet only on the head and DO NOT allow him into any shadow-like areas or dark spaces. If you have any huts/tents/boxes/tubes in the cage (cloth or other), remove them right away.

Sorry, I'm new to this site so I'm not exactly sure how to respond to messages.

I understand that it wasn't the best way to handle the bite, but she didn't give up on the bird, she continously tried taking him out every day for a month and he wasn't allowing it.

Thanks.

 

[noodles123]

Yeah, that's what I meant by "hindsight is 20/20"
Start back at the basics--- move the bird to the main room, make sure he/she is getting plenty of bird-safe fruit/veg/pellets/ a healthy seed mix daily (no peanuts, sunflower seeds, or corn)...NO HUMAN FOOD (salt, sugar, mushrooms, garlic, onion, leeks, chives, avocado, caffeine, coffee (decaf or regular) rhubarb, tomatoes etc). Birds need 10-14 hours of quiet sleep in the dark and then light for the rest of the day....this also regulates hormones
Build trust again- read near the bird etc, but don't engage unless it engages with you (assuming you can safely leave the cage door open and allow the bird to go in and out as it pleases).
Try handing food to the bird (treats) and if he/she won't take them, let her/him see you place them in the bowl.
We are talking weeks and weeks...
Birds move in slow motion and when they are hormonal, you can't give up on them or lock them up (unless it is for like 5 minutes). They don't understand.
Make sure you only pet on the head, and remove any boxes, tents, huts or opportunities to hang out around shadows (blankets, pillows, under furniture etc). These are major hormonal triggers.

 

[Laurasea]

Thank you for coming here and asking for advice and help. For me leaving a bird in a back bedroom is neglect. It's a common thing people do when they can't figure out how to deal. This parrot is a highly highly social and intelligent creature. Now it's in maximum security serving life in isolation. ..

The first thing you need to do is move the cage to main living area, in the girlfriends house not grandmothers, preferableew out the window, and the back or a side against the wall. This allows them to see and hear and be part of a living community. And enrichment for their mind. And having the back side against a wall allows them to feel safe , and that they can't be snuck up from behind.

When anyone passes the cage, say hello and put a treat in a treat cup. To start the resocialization. We have a thread here on tips on bonding. And earning trust. You are going to have to start over, after years in the back bedroom.

Birds can become territorial of their cage. So you can set up a perch on the inside of the cage door so that when you swing open the door the bird can sit there. Also set up some on the outside of the cage. Sometimes this is enough , when they come out of the cage on their own that you can work with them.

You need to accept that some bite are going to happen, we all here hav been bitten. I just made some mistakes with my GCC that lead to a lot of biting with blood Everytime.
I was able to figure out what I was doing wrong and fix it. No more bites. I expect I will get the odd one here and there.

If your girlfriend can't deal with an odd bite here and there, and isn't willing to commit to the rehabilitation of this parrot, and incorporate this intelligent as a five year old child into her life for the next 20 years.

Then the parrot might be best served placed in a home with an experienced parrot person who is made aware the bird has been in a cage in a back bedroom for years.

But if she and you are willing to do the work this community will do it's best to help you, and support you.
Go and read other threads and posts on biting. I would also shift your thinking that this the parrots fault, to this is the humans fault. A problem of miss communication This is how a large part of us approach issues with our parrots , it's never the parrots fault.
Sailboat has wonderfulr information on dealing with and understanding behavior, in the Amazon forum at the top of the page highlighted in blue. I love Amazon's. Read that thread , lots of great info that helps people with any type of Parrots. Even if they are not Amazon's.

 

[Aratingettar]

You have not indicated what species of bird it is, you've posted in the Conures section so we can assume it's a Conure, but the details on proper socialization may be different for different species.
And what Laurasea already stated, it's inevitable to get bitten sporadically - it's the matter of understanding birds' body language in the first place. In this case, it was a tame bird (3-4 years of living with people) and then put away after a single bite. That's not good for any bird.

 

[Laurasea]

I would also do a full make over.
What size is the cage? Many cages are sold way to small for the species. I myself started out 18 years ago with a way to small cage.

Next perches. You can clean the whole cage and perches with dilute water and vinegar. Cold water only, hot water makes vinegar release fumes that are harmful. You need lots of perches of different types and sizes in the cage. Abd you can use them to turn the top of the cage into a play stand

Diet? What are you feeding the bird? Most of us offer several different types of veggies once it twice daily. Never used canned, but you can use frozen veggies that you thaw for the bird. Fresh is best of course. Then a good brand of pellets free choice in the cage all day. If the parrot hasn't had pellets before, switching them is a process that takes time.. and healthy seeds, that is seed mix with no sunflower seeds or peanuts. You can use sunflower seeds for training. Healthy nuts once a week, almonds, pistachio, walnuts, or pine nuts to name a few.

Offer baths about three times a week. You can see if they like gentle misting, aim up abd just to the side if the bird, see if they will move into the mist. Or I use a large casserole dish with Luke warm water.

Toys. I recently posted a great link to toy types. Led me to add noise making toys to my cages, abd they were a big hit! I bought at the dollar store as all set of all plastic measuring spoons and hung with a zip tie at head hight over a perch. Abd a small cardboard box with seeds in it, rattles wonderful and they can chew in to get seeds. EllenD had a good idea for old paperback books as fun shredders. I stuff a few pages through the bars, they live shredding.

Also, when it is warm enough outside, I zip tie the doors and roll the whole cage outside in dappled sunlight, and sit right next to them. They enjoy the sights and sounds, abd benefits if real sunshine. Or I use a small travel cage to take them outside. I also got a neat travel cage that is clear, with canvas that is light weight safe and made for birds to take them for walks outside. Birds can suffer depression, ect .. from never being outside.

Ok this k I covered a bunch for a nice make over for your bird. I really want to improve everyone's lives

 

[reeisconfused]

I agree with everything Laurasea has said above!

New cage, new setup (with different types of perches and toys) and move the new cage to the main area of the house. Treat your bird as though this is the first time you brought him home!

Let him settle in and get used to his environment. Take a chair and sit away from the cage, not too close and not too far away and read / talk to him everyday. You can move in closer if your bird gets comfortable with it overtime.

Out of cage time is a necessity for all birds. They need exercise and activities to keep their brain stimulated. You can start by letting your bird out in a small room with no open windows. Let him do whatever he wants. Interaction is important but don’t force it on him. Give him time and space and he should come around.

Find out what his favourite treat is. Work on target training (you can look up videos on youtube) and also find ways to handle his biting. Every bird WILL bite, no matter what, one day or another. If they feel threatened by you, they WILL bite. You could have a very strong bond with your bird and still get bitten. The bite is your bird warning you to stop whatever you’re doing to get that response. If you don’t listen, the bird will bite harder. My tiel is grumpy sometimes and will bite for no reason. Birds are like little children and they have their moods and personality as well. If you think that you cannot deal with biting, (and I’m saying this kindly, truly) please consider rehoming him as being in cage 24/7 is not a good life for him.

I can tell that you love your bird and both you and your bird are frustrated. There are ways to get past this. It’s going to take a LOT of patience if you want your bird to be happy again.

Read up all the posts you can on this forum! There is SO much to learn.

 

[noodles123]

That is the other thing, if a bird bites, you need to consider why it happened. The way that you react is going to depend largely on the function of the bite. If a bird is biting out of fear and you put it in its cage or walk away immediately afterward, then you have just rewarded the bite by allowing the bird to get away from you...If a bird bites for attention and you yell and people run over to help and make a big deal out of it, then you have rewarded the behavior.

Look into ABC charting (antecedent, behavior, consequence). It is part of ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis).

Antecedent- what happens IMMEDIATELY before the bite (including bird body language and location, and what you did right before it happened--it is also a good idea to track who was around, the time of day, and any other "setting events" like a routine shift, new furniture, unfamiliar people, illness etc), Behavior= the bite plus anything else that the bird does (e.g., ran forward and bit finger while on cage-top)...Consequence is NOT punishment- it is just what happens immediately afterwards (did you yell, cry, laugh, put the bird down, did others enter the room, did you give the bird a treat, did you ignore the behavior completely etc etc).
By charting behavior this way, you can determine the function for different types of behaviors. Birds and people only do things when they get a pay-off and most behaviors are motivated by 1. attention, 2. escape, 3. sensory needs or 4. tangible items. By analyzing the consequence column of your chart over time, you will begin to see patterns. If every time the bird bites it is because you put it down or walk away right after, then the function of the behavior (reason for the behavior) is to escape etc etc. If a behavior is repeating itself, then it means that it is or has been reinforced because parrots and people don't do anything without getting something out of it.

Once you know the function, you can find more acceptable ways for your bird to meet that need and/or you can pair yourself with less aversive stimuli in order to remove that need altogether over time.


Here is an example of an ABC chart with some attention seeking components:

Antecedent: Bird is eating on cage top. Owner walks away. Behavior: Bird screams Consequence: Owner walks in and hushes the bird. = Attention (probably)

Antecedent: Bird is sitting next to owner at the computer. Behavior: Bird bites owners arm Consequence: Looks at bird, says ow!!, picks bird up to take back to cage = Attention (probably)

Antecedent: Owner is working on paperwork near bird. Behavior: bird picks up poop repeatedly consequence- owner runs over to take the poop away and chides the bird for putting it in its mouth; bird does not put poop in mouth when owner is actively attending to bird= Attention (probably)


One event alone is not enough to determine the function of a behavior, which is why you must chart over time and be as objective as possible.

Eventually, you may see a trend, and once you do, you know what motivates your bird and how to avoid indulging/reinforcing inappropriate behaviors.

 

[PrincessMelody]

I would like to thank everyone for responding, and I will definitely try out all of this new information!

However, I would like to ask something. I'm not blaming the bird, and I'm not trying to argue with you all, I'm sure you have better knowledge than I, but I would like to make clear that we didn't just "shove the bird away in a cage". He was kept in the back bedroom pretty much his whole life and was never aggressive until suddenly one day. It's not like it was a sudden switch from living room to bedroom. As I stated in my first post, our bird (a Green Cheek Conure, by the way) was attempted to be taken out for a whole month, and he was constantly trying to draw blood from my girlfriend's family. When my girlfriend got bit on her lip, he literally tore a chunk of her lip out. I'm not saying it's the bird's fault, but I suppose I'm confused on what we did wrong, when he was very, very vicious and aggressive. She even tried taking him out with treats back then, and he would STILL try to take pieces of her hand off or draw blood. So.. can someone explain a bit more how it's our fault?

Thanks.

 

[noodles123]

I would like to thank everyone for responding, and I will definitely try out all of this new information!

However, I would like to ask something. I'm not blaming the bird, and I'm not trying to argue with you all, I'm sure you have better knowledge than I, but I would like to make clear that we didn't just "shove the bird away in a cage". He was kept in the back bedroom pretty much his whole life and was never aggressive until suddenly one day. It's not like it was a sudden switch from living room to bedroom. As I stated in my first post, our bird (a Green Cheek Conure, by the way) was attempted to be taken out for a whole month, and he was constantly trying to draw blood from my girlfriend's family. When my girlfriend got bit on her lip, he literally tore a chunk of her lip out. I'm not saying it's the bird's fault, but I suppose I'm confused on what we did wrong, when he was very, very vicious and aggressive. She even tried taking him out with treats back then, and he would STILL try to take pieces of her hand off or draw blood. So.. can someone explain a bit more how it's our fault?

Thanks.

Much like a baby human, or even young human, it isn't until their teen/young adult years that birds begin to see things differently and become (dare I day, resentful?).
I am not saying you did it on purpose, but it does take humans and birds awhile to realize when something is "wrong" in their lives. Does that make sense?
That could explain the sudden change, coupled with a surge of hormones etc.

I will say that I am now confused, based on this quote " our bird (a Green Cheek Conure, by the way) was attempted to be taken out for a whole month, and he was constantly trying to draw blood from my girlfriend's family"

If you were trying to handle a bird like this after just one month, I am not shocked that you were bitten in the least. It often takes WAY longer than 1 month to build trust with a bird and if you don't have it, pushing things will only result in bites and loss of trust. If her bird bit her because she was trying to pick it up one month in, then scratch the hormones/teen bird statements above and return to basic bonding principles. Birds move in slow motion...as in...SLOOOOOOW MOTION....It took my bird 3 months to step up, and she came to me knowing how. We have a very solid relationship, but the one time I pushed her, I regretted it. These animals are as smart as apes (and smarter in many respects)---they remember things and they are emotional. If it helps to think of your bird as a traumatized child who was torn from his/her family, I would suggest doing so, as that is roughly his/her cognitive capacity and he/she is a flock animal, so family matters.

 

[PrincessMelody]

I would like to thank everyone for responding, and I will definitely try out all of this new information!

However, I would like to ask something. I'm not blaming the bird, and I'm not trying to argue with you all, I'm sure you have better knowledge than I, but I would like to make clear that we didn't just "shove the bird away in a cage". He was kept in the back bedroom pretty much his whole life and was never aggressive until suddenly one day. It's not like it was a sudden switch from living room to bedroom. As I stated in my first post, our bird (a Green Cheek Conure, by the way) was attempted to be taken out for a whole month, and he was constantly trying to draw blood from my girlfriend's family. When my girlfriend got bit on her lip, he literally tore a chunk of her lip out. I'm not saying it's the bird's fault, but I suppose I'm confused on what we did wrong, when he was very, very vicious and aggressive. She even tried taking him out with treats back then, and he would STILL try to take pieces of her hand off or draw blood. So.. can someone explain a bit more how it's our fault?

Thanks.

Much like a baby human, or even young human, it isn't until their teen/young adult years that birds begin to see things differently and become (dare I day, resentful?).
I am not saying you did it on purpose, but it does take humans and birds awhile to realize when something is "wrong" in their lives. Does that make sense?
That could explain the sudden change, coupled with a surge of hormones etc.

I will say that I am now confused, based on this quote " our bird (a Green Cheek Conure, by the way) was attempted to be taken out for a whole month, and he was constantly trying to draw blood from my girlfriend's family"

If you were trying to handle a bird like this after just one month, I am not shocked that you were bitten in the least. It takes WAY longer than 1 month to build trust with a bird and if you don't have it, pushing things will only result in bites and loss of trust. If her bird bit her because she was trying to pick it up one month in, then scratch the hormones/teen bird statements above and return to basic bonding principles. Birds move in slow motion...as in...SLOOOOOOW MOTION.....She should have known better than to rush that and if she did....I would say she knows to research more next time (sympathetically).

Sorry, I meant the month after he tore a piece of her lip off. She still tried to take him out, she didn't give up after the bite. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Laurasea]

It's hard to explain bites, there are lots if reasons, mostly Miss read of body language. Also once you get a bad bite, you are of course fearful and hesate this can confuse the bird and lead to more bites. It's sort of like teaching the bird to bite without meaning to...

You guys certainly aren't the first posters with biting trouble, the forum is filled with posts like yours.
I myself with my GCC of eight years just went through a month if increasing bites, then a bad week if bites everyday. I had been useing my hands to shoo her away from another bird, and that burds cage. I inadvertently taught her to fear hands. I had to sit back and think of everything to figure out what went wrong. Then I had to regain her trust.
That's why I talked about a whole bird approach. You want everything in the environment great. Then you need to work on trust building. Many birds that are cage agressive, are nit agressive at all once they are away from the cage. Or if trust bond was broken somehow, you have to work to get it back. And even if the bird was always kept in a back bedroom, it's just not a good idea to do this to a bird. They want to be part of everything with their human flock. And feel very frustrated when they can hear but not see you, plus it's mind numbing to be in one room, stuck in a cage. We recommend 3 to 4 hours of out of the cage time, or even better out the whole time you are home.
You don't have an evil it bad bird, you have a misunderstood bird. And if you look at it that way you are going to make progress faster. Though you need a ton of patience, and expect it to take time.
Bites hurt, but you've got to be the bigger human. Birds squabble , and are over it, right back to grooming each other.

 

[Laurasea]

Also how you react to bites is important. Most recommend no reaction, you take the bite, blood pain and all. You say no bites in a calm voice, yes it's hard. Then you start over. If your bird was bonded to you and had a high drive to be with you. Then we would recommend the shunning method. Which is after a bite, and a calm no, you put the bird back in the cage, turn your back wait a minute, then get your bird right back out and start over. But that's not going to work with your bird right now.

You might need to use a hand perch to get the bird out of the cage, and move to a plsy stand area to work on step ups. But I would probably work at the openn cage door with a perch on the door. And work on just taking treats by hand. And letting the bird climb out to the top of the cage with a treat dish, that you place a treat in when ever you walk by. I had to do this with a rescue. Treats in bowl when I walked by, every few minutes, then only treats in the bowl if she would come over to the bowl. Then only treats by hand. Adjusting bassed on how she acted, with set backs some days. Then treats if she would step up, and so on.

Birds read your whole body, they communicate by reading pupil size! So it's very important to put yourself in the right mind set , very zen, when working with them. Talk to them, tell them what you are doing, move slow and confident.
Some people have to do this with birds that are larger and have huge more destructive beaks.

 

[Laurasea]

One last thought. The bite probably happened because something spooked the bird. Then as it was lip there was screaminh and trying to scape the bird off the face, and it was grabbed and put back in the cage. BOTH parties were traumatized by this! Then there was fear and mistrust, and hesitation from both bird and person, leading to more bites.
That's in the past, forget it. Time to move on , like it's the first day you brought the bird home. I would have no more than two people interacting with the bird, the main caregiver ( your girlfriend?) And you. Anyone else can just say hi , and put a treat in the treat dish.

 

[PrincessMelody]

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

We closed the door and opened his cage. Got him to walk around on a food scooper, then we put him on top of his cage. We even got him to walk on my girlfriend's arm and up in her hair! She got bit twice but no blood was drawn.

 

[YSGC]

I would like to thank everyone for responding, and I will definitely try out all of this new information!

However, I would like to ask something. I'm not blaming the bird, and I'm not trying to argue with you all, I'm sure you have better knowledge than I, but I would like to make clear that we didn't just "shove the bird away in a cage". He was kept in the back bedroom pretty much his whole life and was never aggressive until suddenly one day. It's not like it was a sudden switch from living room to bedroom. As I stated in my first post, our bird (a Green Cheek Conure, by the way) was attempted to be taken out for a whole month, and he was constantly trying to draw blood from my girlfriend's family. When my girlfriend got bit on her lip, he literally tore a chunk of her lip out. I'm not saying it's the bird's fault, but I suppose I'm confused on what we did wrong, when he was very, very vicious and aggressive. She even tried taking him out with treats back then, and he would STILL try to take pieces of her hand off or draw blood.

So.. can someone explain a bit more how it's our fault?

Thanks.

You ask, "How is it your "fault""?
Well, it's not so simple.
It's complicated.

Dogs have been selectively bred for zillions of years for qualities that please humans.
Parrots, not so.

If I may I'll repeat an off-color joke about this:
Let's say you locked your dog and your wife in your car's trunk for an hour.
When you let them out, your dog would just be happy to see you.

Parrots are 0, 1, 2, maybe 3 generations removed from the wild.
To a great degree they're still mostly wild animals, even hand-fed ones homed with experienced parronts.
That they get along with us in our homes at all is remarkable.

Over the last 50 years I've had several birds.
Each one has been better than the previous when it comes to being a happy companion who also made me happy.
What changed?
I did.
Rather, I learned more about the many unique needs of parrots.
Over a half century I've been learning about these mysterious and intelligent aliens. :33:
Slow learner here.

Learning more means each new bird of mine has enjoyed a better environment, nutrition, stimulation and a human who understands and does a better job of meeting many many parrot needs.
I still have tons to learn, so I love absorbing the depth of expertise from members of this forum. :35:

It could be argued that all the things that went wrong with my birds in my first decades of bird parrontage was my fault.
I didn't know Z yet.
I had learned only X and Y when I had that bird.
Only years later did I learn Z.
You might say expecting a wild animal to behave as a domesticated one was my fault, or, getting one before I was ready was my fault.

Successful human/bird relationships are a chicken and egg thing.
No matter how intelligent the human is there is lots of stuff that is NOT obvious or intuitive.
You must learn and get parrot experience before getting a parrot.
... but how can you if you don't get your first parrot?

The process is not easy, but fora like this are a great resource.

The journey is immensely rewarding as your bird relationships deepen and become more mutually rewarding.

 

[Laurasea]

The journey is immensely rewarding as your bird relationships deepen and become more mutually rewarding.
__________________
I deeply felt that.....well said

 

[Laurasea]

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

We closed the door and opened his cage. Got him to walk around on a food scooper, then we put him on top of his cage. We even got him to walk on my girlfriend's arm and up in her hair! She got bit twice but no blood was drawn.

This is fantastic that you are working on your relationship! But no shoulder or head yet. Those are areas of trust. Earned when no bites. Plus keeping them on the arm or hand allows you to read body language. I can't wait to hear more of your progress.

 

[noodles123]

Glad to hear you are sticking with it!

I want to second what Laurasea said about not letting on head or shoulders until solid trust has been built. It is way too easy for a bird to do damage up there (and/or resist coming down). Until you can play the "step-up game" consistently (using hands), I would keep him on everyone's lower arms.