Baby GCC 'begging' and incessant beeping, but only with my husband

[salerno]

Hi all, I've been lurking about these forums for some time and learning from everyone's valuable experiences - what a wonderful community.

I recently acquired a baby green cheek, Jooshi, now 14 weeks old. Since joining us three weeks ago, 'he' warmed up really quickly, and we've already managed to get him trained in flight recall (impressively consistent so far, and growing into an extremely confident indoor flier after learning about windows and boundaries), some of the basics like step up, clicker, targetting, 'go to' designated perches, and we're making headway with potty training and harness training. I'm taking advantage of me being at home while I'm on furlough, though I limit my contact time with him as I may need to return to work soon. We've already built up a routine with out-of-cage time in the morning and evenings with my husband and I, and just me in the afternoons. He's doing well in keeping himself entertained with the toys and food in his cage when he's by himself.

Like most, he loves head rubs and cuddles, and just generally hanging out with/on us whenever we let him out. Unlike many though, he hasn't shown much of the clownish playfulness like being on his back or upside-down, shredding stuff and such, but I'm aware he may need more time to get totally comfortable or confident with his feet, or he may just not be that kind of bird. He's still a baby after all.

Some of his quirks I can sort of understand, but there are some behaviours in particular that baffle me and I was hoping to get some insights from fellow parronts:

1. He keeps reverting to baby behaviours like wing drooping and flapping, hiccuping, and slight head bobbing whenever my husband is around. I've also noticed that he tends to gravitate towards my husband given the choice, and is more adamant at testing his boundaries than mine. Like landing on his head, nibbling his ear, refusing to step up for him, and being more impatient at having to wait for the cue to fly to him.

When it's just me with him during the daytime, he's fine with hardly any begging. He makes normal conure sounds, and has started experimenting with some human words which is really cute. He's fully concentrated on the training for as long as his little birdie brain can manage, and seems to enjoy showing off and working for treats. But when my husband is here and Jooshi is in his baby mode (ie. mornings, evenings, weekends), training becomes almost impossible.

My hypothesis is that my husband may remind him of the breeder... but what could we do to manage this? I know that three weeks isn't a lot of time and he may come to outgrow it, but he appears to be regressing - and getting louder at the same time. We're becoming half-deaf!

For info, the breeder told me that he had been eating on his own and doing well with pellets, veg and fruits for 2-3 weeks before we got him. He's enjoying the same since he's been with us (he loves eating and isn't picky), and his weight has been steady between 70-75g. I tried giving him warm mushy foods from either a spoon or a syringe, but he shows no special response to it.

2. He freaks out whenever we touch his wings. Whenever we're scratching his neck and our fingers get too close to his wings, or during harness training when I attempt to work on the wing loops, or at any other time even, he screeches and slaps his wings about and sometimes even lunges at our fingers - failing which, he ends up biting his own shoulder. He's otherwise usually ok if we cup our entire hands on/around him. I've been trying to desensitise him to us touching his wings and back (not stroking, only for quick manipulation... counting 1, 2, 3 then letting go etc.) and it works only when he's sleepy and calm.

3. He prefers to sleep on the floor of his cage - not even in a corner but sometimes right in the middle of it. I've since added a wooden platform as he seems to like those, and he's taken to sleeping on it, but still only when it's on the floor, not higher up. We cover his cage at night and almost the moment we do so he usually starts chattering away and beak grinding, and I know that he tucks one leg in to sleep or nap, but not his head into his shoulders. Is this normal for young GCCs to sleep this way... are there any potential (health) issues I should be concerned about?

Thanks all for your advice!

And here's the cheeky little thing:

 

[fiddlejen]

Oh he's beautiful!

(3) Conures apparently like to sleep any-which-way, so I would not be worried about that.

(1) Regarding your husband - it sounds like you and he are interacting with bird mainly at different times during day? I have noticed my Sunny shows Very different personality tendencies at different times of day. Could this be part of what you're noticing? Other than that, it sounds like perhaps you are just interacting with him Differently? It actually sounds like he is very well-behaved.

I have developed a game of Stop And Go which I have been using to pretty consistently get my Sunny to limit her loud noises during my work times. I have described it elsewhere and eventually I will make a specific thread about it... but, with a very young bird like yours I truly would Not try to limit his noise too much of the time. They Are supposed to make noise. (This is just my personal opinion.)

Some of what you are calling baby behaviours just seem like normal conure behavior to me. ?

(2) I understand the concept of getting him used to touching wings in case of vet visits or so you can do harness training. And personally me & Sunny have failed at harness-training so take my advice on this subject with many grains of salt -- but, personally, I'd say that: If he doesn't want his wings touched --then doN't touch them. This is just me.

 

[T00tsyd]

Hi all, I've been lurking about these forums for some time and learning from everyone's valuable experiences - what a wonderful community.

I recently acquired a baby green cheek, Jooshi, now 14 weeks old. Since joining us three weeks ago, 'he' warmed up really quickly, and we've already managed to get him trained in flight recall (impressively consistent so far, and growing into an extremely confident indoor flier after learning about windows and boundaries), some of the basics like step up, clicker, targetting, 'go to' designated perches, and we're making headway with potty training and harness training. I'm taking advantage of me being at home while I'm on furlough, though I limit my contact time with him as I may need to return to work soon. We've already built up a routine with out-of-cage time in the morning and evenings with my husband and I, and just me in the afternoons. He's doing well in keeping himself entertained with the toys and food in his cage when he's by himself.

Like most, he loves head rubs and cuddles, and just generally hanging out with/on us whenever we let him out. Unlike many though, he hasn't shown much of the clownish playfulness like being on his back or upside-down, shredding stuff and such, but I'm aware he may need more time to get totally comfortable or confident with his feet, or he may just not be that kind of bird. He's still a baby after all.

Some of his quirks I can sort of understand, but there are some behaviours in particular that baffle me and I was hoping to get some insights from fellow parronts:

1. He keeps reverting to baby behaviours like wing drooping and flapping, hiccuping, and slight head bobbing whenever my husband is around. I've also noticed that he tends to gravitate towards my husband given the choice, and is more adamant at testing his boundaries than mine. Like landing on his head, nibbling his ear, refusing to step up for him, and being more impatient at having to wait for the cue to fly to him.

When it's just me with him during the daytime, he's fine with hardly any begging. He makes normal conure sounds, and has started experimenting with some human words which is really cute. He's fully concentrated on the training for as long as his little birdie brain can manage, and seems to enjoy showing off and working for treats. But when my husband is here and Jooshi is in his baby mode (ie. mornings, evenings, weekends), training becomes almost impossible.

My hypothesis is that my husband may remind him of the breeder... but what could we do to manage this? I know that three weeks isn't a lot of time and he may come to outgrow it, but he appears to be regressing - and getting louder at the same time. We're becoming half-deaf!

For info, the breeder told me that he had been eating on his own and doing well with pellets, veg and fruits for 2-3 weeks before we got him. He's enjoying the same since he's been with us (he loves eating and isn't picky), and his weight has been steady between 70-75g. I tried giving him warm mushy foods from either a spoon or a syringe, but he shows no special response to it.

2. He freaks out whenever we touch his wings. Whenever we're scratching his neck and our fingers get too close to his wings, or during harness training when I attempt to work on the wing loops, or at any other time even, he screeches and slaps his wings about and sometimes even lunges at our fingers - failing which, he ends up biting his own shoulder. He's otherwise usually ok if we cup our entire hands on/around him. I've been trying to desensitise him to us touching his wings and back (not stroking, only for quick manipulation... counting 1, 2, 3 then letting go etc.) and it works only when he's sleepy and calm.

3. He prefers to sleep on the floor of his cage - not even in a corner but sometimes right in the middle of it. I've since added a wooden platform as he seems to like those, and he's taken to sleeping on it, but still only when it's on the floor, not higher up. We cover his cage at night and almost the moment we do so he usually starts chattering away and beak grinding, and I know that he tucks one leg in to sleep or nap, but not his head into his shoulders. Is this normal for young GCCs to sleep this way... are there any potential (health) issues I should be concerned about?

Thanks all for your advice!

And here's the cheeky little thing:

WhoooaaH! Welcome but slow down. You say you have only had him 3 weeks and yet the list of things you have already done with him is a mile long. No wonder he is unsettled. Ok let's back up a bit. Syd was 14 weeks old when he came to me and you are right they are so young and unworldly that they will almost turn cartwheels for you initially. Birds notoriously take a long time to really trust their owners and settle down and I guess that what you are seeing is that gradually he is recognising that he has choices and there are things that he really doesn't like, likes more, hates.

It's possible that he is already showing a preference for your husband when he is around. He is happy to be with you but when the two of you are together he may - I repeat may - decide that he is a bit jealous and he may be starting to see one of you as a bit of a threat. You need to stop and work out which way it is. He may be squawking at your husband for attention or he may be telling him to get off his patch. One day he will bite! I guarantee, and then trust will be the only thing you will need. The dropped wings and head bobbing are all the same thing and are not necessarily a reversion Syd still does the same.

I would drop back a bit. He will gradually learn to trust you touching his wings but his actions at present mean he hates it. Think about it his way. His wings are his only escape method and chances are he hasn't yet had time to decide if you are really friends or foes, yet you insist on trapping him as he sees it. He is hard wired to see anything larger than himself as likely to eat him and just because you are another human doesn't mean he sees it that way and trust me 3 weeks isn't nearly enough time for him to have settled.

My own feeling is that the more you bombard him with training, harness, and umpteen other demands it gives him little time to just chill and learn to calmly accept who you are. No wonder he is starting to freak out. My major advice would be to slow right down. With Syd it often felt that it was one step forward and 2 back and now at 3.5 years he will just about let me hold a wing out to look at but only if I choose my moment carefully and give him a count of 3. He understands that in counting that magic number I will let it go and he trusts me that that is what I will do. Everything your bird learns is on his terms, if you over-ride that there will come a time when he will resent it and you - possibly in about 12-14 months time when he suddenly reaches puberty and goes nuts for a while. The one really big thing that you need for him to know without any doubt is that he can trust you. You will not hurt him but that takes a lot of time and will vary from day to day. Progress is a maze not a straight line and he will be the leader. It's no joke to say that they train us much more efficiently than we train them. Listen to your GCC and he will show you the way.

You have all the right things going my only advice would be to slow right down, don't expect too much. As you rightly said he is still a baby. Just one concern Syd has never slept on the floor of his cage he has always perched. Have you had him vet checked? Does he perch happily in the day? Does he have a variety of perch sizes so he can rest his feet. Avoid dowelling perches, one is ok but not all.

 

[salerno]

Wow thank you both for your very patient replies.

GCCs are new to me so I wasn't too sure what to expect...

(1) Regarding your husband - it sounds like you and he are interacting with bird mainly at different times during day? *I have noticed my Sunny shows Very different personality tendencies at different times of day. *Could this be part of what you're noticing? *Other than that, it sounds like perhaps you are just interacting with him Differently? *It actually sounds like he is very well-behaved.

Hmm, I have wondered about the timing of the day as well so I paid attention to the weekend afternoon sessions when my husband is at home - but nope, Jooshi 'reverts' too. I might try to ban my husband from a morning or evening playtime and see if Jooshi is indeed calmer then. I'm more experienced with birds - and animal handling in general - whilst this is my husband's first time, so that might be another explanation. We try to be as consistent as we can with our words, cues, and interactions, but there's definitely differences that Jooshi can perceive. We joke that my husband is more of a 'pushover' and Jooshi knows this! And yes, compared to one of my lorikeets when she was the same age then, Jooshi is an absolute angel (for now!).

I have developed a game of Stop And Go which I have been using to pretty consistently get my Sunny to limit her loud noises during my work times. *I have described it elsewhere and eventually I will make a specific thread about it... *but, with a very young bird like yours I truly would Not try to limit his noise too much of the time. *They Are supposed to make noise. *(This is just my personal opinion.)

Ah thanks for suggesting this. I'll keep it banked for the future. We don't have any issues with noise - we fully expected a much noisier bird, though it's still early days yet!

Some of what you are calling baby behaviours just seem like normal conure behavior to me. ?

It might well be, and I may be mis-interpreting it, though that begging+hiccuping+drooping combo seems babyish. I'll try to share a video of it.

(2) I understand the concept of getting him used to touching wings in case of vet visits or so you can do harness training. *And personally me & Sunny have failed at harness-training so take my advice on this subject with many grains of salt -- but, personally, I'd say that: *If he doesn't want his wings touched --then doN't touch them. *This is just me.

Having read a lot of tips on the Aviator harness training, I'm going reeeaaal slooooow with it. I think I could have easily strapped everything in in his first week during snuggle time and he would actually have tolerated it, but I'm taking it step by step and making sure he's totally comfortable with each stage before proceeding with the next. I'm actually able to get him to voluntarily stick his head through the small loop and get one side of the wings in, but stopping short of shortening/tightening the remaining side. I think I started harness training with my other birds too late so I was eager to introduce Jooshi to it early.

It's possible that he is already showing a preference for your husband when he is around. He is happy to be with you but when the two of you are together he may - I repeat may - decide that he is a bit jealous and he may be starting to see one of you as a bit of a threat. You need to stop and work out which way it is. He may be squawking at your husband for attention or he may be telling him to get off his patch. One day he will bite! I guarantee, and then trust will be the only thing you will need. The dropped wings and head bobbing are all the same thing and are not necessarily a reversion Syd still does the same.

He's squawking at my husband while perched on him, and when my husband hands him a treat, his head bobbing intensifies. It is quite clear that he prefers my husband, for example flying to him first when we open his cage door, or flying to him if I was the one who took him out. When something spooks him when he's on one of his perches, he takes flight but swiftly finds his way to my husband even if I'm there. When he's getting sleepy and wants to snuggle, he clearly demonstrates a preference for my husband's lap or shoulder. During the day, he appears equally happy to come to me for the same comforts, remaining the same velcro bird, only in a more 'grown up' way, ie. minus bobbing+hiccupping+drooping.

Though you're right, I'll have to watch out for signs of jealousy that can go in either direction, and prepare/minimise chances of aggression later on.

**
I would drop back a bit. He will gradually learn to trust you touching his wings but his actions at present mean he hates it. Think about it his way. His wings are his only escape method and chances are he hasn't yet had time to decide if you are really friends or foes, yet you insist on trapping him as he sees it. He is hard wired to see anything larger than himself as likely to eat him and just because you are another human doesn't mean he sees it that way and trust me 3 weeks isn't nearly enough time for him to have settled.

If he shows any signs of protest with my fingers venturing too near, I stay clear of his wings. There's a bit of a grey zone where sometimes he doesn't mind a little contact and at other times he just flips, it depends on his mood I guess. I'll remain vigilant, respectful, and patient.

*My own feeling is that the more you bombard him with training, harness, and umpteen other demands it gives him little time to just chill and learn to calmly accept who you are. No wonder he is starting to freak out. My major advice would be to slow right down. With Syd it often felt that it was one step forward and 2 back and now at 3.5 years he will just about let me hold a wing out to look at but only if I choose my moment carefully and give him a count of 3. He understands that in counting that magic number I will let it go and he trusts me that that is what I will do. Everything your bird learns is on his terms, if you over-ride that there will come a time when he will resent it and you - possibly in about 12-14 months time when he suddenly reaches puberty and goes nuts for a while. The one really big thing that you need for him to know without any doubt is that he can trust you. You will not hurt him but that takes a lot of time and will vary from day to day. Progress is a maze not a straight line and he will be the leader. It's no joke to say that they train us much more efficiently than we train them. Listen to your GCC and he will show you the way.

Whoops... yes I do realise that, in my excitement and newfound free time, I have sped on right ahead! I've slowed down in past few days with just rehashing what he has learnt so far, keeping everything enjoyable for him. I really wasn't expecting to progress so quickly with him, even with just short 5-10 minutes of training squeezed into our generally chilled playtimes.

I generally follow my birds' pace: Years ago, I was entrusted with an African Grey that was extremely fearful of and aggressive towards people; I was his third or fourth home and his age was unknown. It took me about 9 months of daily effort and lots of sweat and blood (literally) to get him to trust me enough to step up and learn to enjoy head scritches, thereafter our relationship slowly blossomed and we enjoyed another 8 years before he suddenly and sadly died. One of my lorikeets came to me smack bang in the middle of his terrible twos so that was utter chaos! I later got another lorikeet which came at about the same age as Jooshi but it took at least 4 months-ish for her to get to where Jooshi already is. (The male became quite attached to my younger sister in the years when I had to be away, so they now reside in the family home and not with me.... though I miss them so, and I believe I remain the female's favourite person.)

You have all the right things going my only advice would be to slow right down, don't expect too much. As you rightly said he is still a baby. Just one concern Syd has never slept on the floor of his cage he has always perched. Have you had him vet checked? Does he perch happily in the day? Does he have a variety of perch sizes so he can rest his feet. Avoid dowelling perches, one is ok but not all.

Got it! I will slow down. I was actually not expecting much and got a lot more out of Jooshi in following his lead, but I'll take it slow. We haven't had him vet checked yet, not in the current circumstances. He does perch and climb during the day, and I've seen him do catnaps on one of his perches sometimes, just not at night. He's got natural branches of varying sizes, both store-bought ones as well as home-made-and-sterilised ones, one rope perch (which I am keeping an eye on), and just one dowel at the bottom near the door opening which he perches (or paces) on while waiting to be let out.

Thanks again for all your advice! Hope you won't mind if I return here for more updates/questions.

 

[T00tsyd]

Wow thank you both for your very patient replies.

GCCs are new to me so I wasn't too sure what to expect...

Thanks again for all your advice! Hope you won't mind if I return here for more updates/questions.

Keep them coming there are many with far more experience than me and that has been how I have learned.

 

[fiddlejen]

... Just one concern Syd has never slept on the floor of his cage he has always perched. ....

I get the idea that conures are known for sleeping oddly, to the point that it is almost a cliche. Or even a webcomic:

 

[salerno]

I'm happy to say that I've been taking things slow and working on our bond, and Jooshi's trusting me enough to finally flip onto his back and sleep upside-down on me, and his current favourite nap position is vertically on my chest, with my hand cupped around around him like an ice cream cone. Aren't they the darnest!

He's becoming a champ at recall training and we're now doing advanced maneuveures, getting him flying up and down the stairs and around corners - he loves it and sometimes can't help but show off with sudden swoops and banks and tight u-turns. My heart skips a beat everytime he does that as I'm so afraid he'd hit a wall or ceiling but he seems to have perfect control - brings a smile to my face watching him fly for the joy of it.

As for the 'freaking out' when my fingers get close to his wing thing - I'm gradually learning that there's a very subtle difference in the way he responds, in whether he's protesting against it or if he wants to wrestle with my fingers. Sometimes, he just wants to play rough (I don't fully encourage it but will indulge if he stays gentle)!

I've managed to get a video of him doing his hiccupping, which I still suspect is him babying from being weaned improperly maybe? He's is still doing this whenever my husband is around, and with me when he's desperate for a treat:

[ame="https://youtu.be/KG1WYUdyMDM"]Jooshi hiccupping - YouTube[/ame]

 

[fiddlejen]

Aww so cute! To me they just seem like cute little "please pay attention to me" cute noises.

 

[cneuhauser]

Parrots are like women (please don't blast me too much ladies)...

They're beautiful, engaging, full of personality, and their own bird. The only way to truly develop a relationship with one... is to take it SLOW!

You'll both learn each others limits; my conure certainly knows mine, and I don't touch her wings lmao... nor does she like the harness. She's a "stay at home" type of gal, and that's ok with me.

**FYI Those noises, are the "hey I'm cuddly, I wanna hang out with you.." noises, you should be very appreciative of those noises. If those noises bother you, you shouldn't have a bird. Just wait until she gets her full-voice, and lets you know that you've vanished from existence (left the room)... they will break glass. Honestly, she looks and sounds like an absolute sweetheart!