B&G Macaw breeding help

[LEEB1]

One of my breeding pairs have gave me fertile eggs the last two clutches, (one egg per clutch fertile) However i have lost both chicks DIS (Dead in shell) 2-3 days before hatch both times.

First clutch hen incubated 2ND clutch i incubated the egg temp 99.3f and humidity around 45% second baby didn't internally pip not 100% on pip first egg.

This pair of Macaws are new to me and would explain why the previous owner sold them, Im not giving up on them but would like some info / from someone who as experienced DIS and how you stopped this happening and increased hatch rate.

 

[ChristaNL]

What I understand it could be related to too little of not enough humidity in the nestbox (or even the incubator), but it could aslo be something far worse like some of the terrible parrotdiseases that actually can be transmitted to the babies in the egg.

Step one: have ALL you parrots individually (!) been tested for the terrible 5?
Because a lot of suddenly dead babies are the result of infected parents.

The other option is of course inbreeding.
Are you 100% sure none of the birds are related? (You can als have that tested at the same time you send the bloodsamples to the lab for diseases-- so you can have all of this answered in one go, it is that easy)
How old are they? They could have been "bred empty" already.


=


I am not a breeder because imho there are already enough parrots suffering in cages around the world (and we are up to our ears in B&G's), but this is basic stuff when breeding: unrelated superhealty birds of the right age to start with...

 

[EllenD]

There are SO MANY FACTORS that are going to effect this, and the very first thing that I always ask when asked about why eggs are not successfully hatching is "Did you take your birds to a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist for a complete Wellness-Exam that specifically includes full Blood-Work, including a Metabolic Panel, and also an X-Ray of the female? There are a million different reasons why fertile eggs don't hatch, and the #1 reason has nothing to do with the external environment of the egg (especially if the female laid on it herself), but rather a problem with the developing Embryo, usually due to the physical health of the hen. So if you've never had your breeding-pair to a Certified Avian Vet for full Blood-Work, x-rays, etc., then that is absolutely where you need to start, because it's very likely an issue with your female's health and/or diet.

If the eggs are fertilized then it typically isn't a health issue with the male, though it can be, but rarely...9 times out of 10 when there is a problem with embryos developing correctly it has to do with the health and nutrition of the female.

****That being said, since the egg that you allowed the female to lay on/incubate also didn't hatch, that's a really strong indication that the problem really does have something to do with the health of the hen...While there are plenty of things that can go wrong with using an incubator, there is little that goes wrong with a female incubating her eggs herself, if she is in-fact laying on them. The other indication that something might be going on with the health of your birds, specifically the female, is that you only got 1 egg in two clutches, and the average eggs in a Blue and Gold Macaw clutch is typically between 2-3 eggs, with 4 usually being the max...So the fact that you only got 1 egg in two separate clutches is yet another indication that something is going on with your breeding-pair health-wise...

***How old are your birds? How long have they been a breeding-pair? What is their regular, daily diet?

The other question to ask is what type of Incubator are you using? Is it a "still-air" incubator, or does it have a circulation fan? That makes a HUGE difference when choosing the incubation temperature, because if your incubator is a "still-air" incubator and doesn't have a fan, then you have to raise the incubation temperature because a "still-air" incubator is only emitting heat at one, single point on the egg, typically the top of the egg where the bulb is; In contrast, an incubator with a circulation fan is going to keep the hot air circulating all around the eggs....So if your incubator doesn't have a fan, you must compensate for the lack of hot air all around the egg by increasing the incubation temperature at that one single point of the egg, usually at the top of the egg, that is being heated...

Also, with humidity, this is a huge factor and also depends on the type of incubator you have, and whether or not you've been watching the air-space in the eggs or using the weight-loss between setting and pipping...

Also, what turning-intervals did you use, specifically in the first 10-days of incubation? And was the egg kept on it's side?

Honestly, since you got the same result with the hen incubating the first egg as you did using an artificial incubator, combined with only getting 1 egg per clutch, I'm going to go ahead and say that the issue probably has much more to do with your birds than with the artificial incubator settings, and I highly suggest that you get your birds to a CAV for complete blood-work and an x-ray of the female to see how her reproductive system is functioning and what her metabolic/nutritional levels are...It's likely that you may have to drastically adjust or change their diets, or at least her diet....It's also extremely likely that your hen has already been bred over and over again, and should not be bred anymore at all because it could extremely dangerous to her health, and could even result in her death. Whenever you buy a "breeding-pair" of parrots from someone else (who presumably told you that they were a "proven pair"), you have to get a full picture of the bird's health, specifically the hen's health, BEFORE you attempt breeding her again, because you never know what you're actually getting.

 

[EllenD]

What I understand it could be related to too little of not enough humidity in the nestbox (or even the incubator), but it could aslo be something far worse like some of the terrible parrotdiseases that actually can be transmitted to the babies in the egg.

Step one: have ALL you parrots individually (!) been tested for the terrible 5?
Because a lot of suddenly dead babies are the result of infected parents.

The other option is of course inbreeding.
Are you 100% sure none of the birds are related? (You can als have that tested at the same time you send the bloodsamples to the lab for diseases-- so you can have all of this answered in one go, it is that easy)
How old are they? They could have been "bred empty" already.

I am not a breeder because imho there are already enough parrots suffering in cages around the world (and we are up to our ears in B&G's), but this is basic stuff when breeding: unrelated superhealty birds of the right age to start with...

Exactly...Like you read my mind, since we posted at exactly the same time...It's definitely sounds like the health of his birds rather than any artificial incubation factors...

 

[LEEB1]

Hi thanks for your reply,

My hen is booked in for full blood test, Her diet is a good diet of fresh fruit & Veg / Pellets, my hen also laid me 3 eggs per clutch but only one fertile on both occasions.

The egg the hen sat went full term and fully formed with a tiny bit of yolk left. Im not 100% this baby internally piped. Around the time of hatch date there was building work going on around us so not to sure if the hen was put off with the noise and stopped sitting!!

The second clutch i incubated again 3 eggs with one fertile, Egg also went full term but more yolk than the first baby that DIS, This baby did not internally pip. The incubator im using is Brinsea advanced set 99.3f i believe humidity was 48% (If myHygrometer was giving me the correct reading) Auto turn every 180min turn angle 8, the chick was sticky making me leave its more down to humidity than health. I also must say that i don't normally incubate my eggs so this was the first time.

when i purchased the birds i was told they are 11 - 13 years old (As we all know some people are not honest) I know very little about the birds past and never had problems with DIS before.


But because ive had the same result both times this is why i asked fr the advice

 

[itzjbean]

If you've had this issue twice already from both attempted clutches it makes me think that the past owner had the same issues with the pair. Very little reason to give up a pair that will give you lots of fertile, strong eggs so it seems that this pair may have always been like this, some just aren't good sitters or healthy enough to make healthy offspring.

A vet check would be a great start to see if there are any underlying issues. Good luck !

 

[LEEB1]

Hi itzjbean,

Im also believing the past owner knew of this problem, Ive spoken to him since and asked if any known incubation or DIS, Health problems in the past and told there as been none.

I can only go on here and now, Nest box is now closed off until heath report and blood tests are back from the vet, and will remain closed if needs be.