Anyone out there have a small bird try to dominate a large bird?

[KBEquine]

(And if so, what do you do about it?)

My Pionus is threatening my husband's Grey, trying to take over its cage.

The Pionus has always been feisty, but I'm not sure how to handle this - he just chased the Grey off its cage.

I'm mostly worried that the Grey will get ticked & go after the Pionus (who would deserve it, but I still need to try to protect the little pit bull.)

(The obvious option is keeping the Pionus locked in his cage because he will either walk or fly to the Grey's cage & threaten him. I'm hoping for some folks experienced with this to offer other options because I hate to have to cage him so much.)

 

[beckybird]

Oh no, please be careful...I had a lovebird (Karma) from the time he was 5 months old until he was almost 13 years old when he died of old age. When Karma was 9 years old, we adopted a baby white-bellied caique. Arlo the caique took an instant dislike to Lola my green cheek and Karma my lovebird. I had to be very careful, because Karma tried to make friends with Arlo... when that didn't work, Karma began to try to establish dominance. Karma was free-flighted and the caique was not. Karma would land on the caique's cage and the two would begin "scrapping." I kept them apart and always had to have a watchful eye on the situation.

Unfortunately, one night I made a HUGE mistake. I caged the caique and decided to make a sandwich before caging Karma and Lola. I thought my smaller birds would enjoy a little time out of the cage before bedtime. The cages were right in the kitchen and I thought I'd keep an eye on the birds while making a sandwich. I heard Karma make a sharp scolding chirp, and saw him fly away from the outside of the caique cage and over my head to his cage. I thought everything was ok, but I noticed that Karma was trying to climb up his cage bars to his perch and he couldn't because he was slipping... I walked over and found the cage bars streaked with Karma's blood- the caique had bitten off Karma's beak!! This happened in a matter of seconds! I had only taken my eye off of the birds to spread mayonnaise on the bread!!

Karma was hospitalized overnight and I had to give him antibiotic injections for a week and handfeed him because without his beak he could not eat on his own. Karma and I were blessed because he wasn't killed, and eventually his beak grew back. It took almost a year for the beak to grow back to its previous size- when it did it was fully functional but a little crooked. He could still preen himself and eat normally. The caique had to be rehomed because I was terrified of another attack.

Please, please be careful. Even though Karma healed and went on to live out the rest of his life in good health with me, I have never forgiven myself for my mistake. What happened could have been prevented, and I do not blame the caique- I blame myself.

 

[andrea.faerie]

I have a Black Cap Conure (Lucy) and a Blue Headed Pionus (Bleu). Lucy is a DIVA. I can have them both out at the same time, but only one on my shoulder at a time. Lucy has only tried to take Bleu's cage 2 times, and I'm not even sure if that's what she was trying to do, I think she REALLY just wanted the bright colored toy that hangs from his playtop perch. When they're out, Lucy will preen Bleu for a second then try to eat his wing... Bleu will snap around and yell at her.. I just keep them separate. I will NEVER house them together even if they do become friends... Both try to keep to themselves as it is when both are out. Usually Lucy is locked up when I'm not in the room and Bleu has "free roam".. he never ventures from his perch though.

Not sure if this was helpful, I'm still trying to figure out how to get them to play together nicely, if they never do then that's fine too... it's been a SLOW and very cautious undertaking.

 

[henpecked]

As unpopular as it might sound ,I'd consider clipping the poi.Better clipped than maimed or dead. Once a bird dominates another (or wants too) things rarely change. It's a ticking time bomb.

 

[KBEquine]

Henpecked, does your opinion remain the same if he also climbs off his cage, walks to the Grey, climbs the cage & then threatens?

It is looking like he either must be clipped or caged, and I hate either idea but not as much as I hate the idea of him getting injured/killed when the Grey finally decides enough is enough.

But given his penchant for walking where ever he wants to go, will clipping work? I guess I'm asking will it change his attitude enough to keep him on his playtop or should I be looking at investing in a bigger cage because he will be in it more?

 

[IcyWolf]

Is there any way to keep them in separate rooms? That way they can both be out and enjoy their space but stay in their respective areas.

 

[Remy]

In the wild, I always see little bird gang up on big predatory birds!

Puck's previous owner had another caique, and she put it in the same cage with a cockatiel. The cockatiel attacked the caique and injured it pretty bad! It had to have surgery and still has a messed up foot. D:

 

[henpecked]

Hey KB ,clipping won't help much if he's going to walk over to the other cage. I have this problem with several hen amazons.I put their cages well away from each other and put other birds in between them. The other birds usually let me know if someone is somewhere they shouldn't be, but you still have to be very vigilant and put them away when you leave the room. I've used large seed catchers on cages before to keep birds from climbing down but aggressive birds can be stubborn and sneaky. wish i had a magic answer but i don't.

 

[KBEquine]

Yeah, I am looking for a miracle solution.

They are actually in separate rooms, but separated by an archway, not a door. In fact, PaulE, the amazon, is by the archway between the 2 cages & he usually is the one who lets me know someone isn't where they are supposed to be. Then it is my job to look around & figure out which feathered body is out-of-place & put it back where it belongs.

In the case of the Pi and the Grey, it really feels like the Pi could care less about the Grey, but he wants the Grey's cage (which is wider & taller than his own), so he chases the Grey off his cage & otherwise completely ignores him.

 

[henpecked]

Is the top of the Grey's cage taller than the Poi's? Would raising the Poi's cage help.

 

[KBEquine]

In fact the Pi has the shortest cage in the house & my 1st move might be to bring an old - but taller - cage in from the garage & see if that makes any difference.

It would be great if it was just 'cage envy.'

 

[Mitchell]

Maybe alternate their outside time, they don't have to be all out all of the time. Plus after they're all clipped, try the rule of three trick. I trained my nape and BF with this and it didn't take long before they'd stay put. My friend writes for BirdUSA and is on the board with AFA and a certified avian behavior counsultant and she is the one that told me about that trick and it worked! So when they jump or climb down, don't say anything just pick them up and put them back put a palm to their face and walk away. After the third time...in the cage they go for a while. Keep repeating and they will eventually catch on. Plus, its not good practice to leave the cage door open or let the bird on top of the cage. This can cause territorial behavioral issues like being nippy and being difficult when stepping up. Playgyms in a neutural area away from the cage is what we were advised and so far so good. She has a new article in BirdsUSA 2012 Annual called "Playful Parrots". Check it out, she has some very useful stuff in there. This stuff worked for me, I hope it may be of some use to you. Good luck!

 

[henpecked]

Hey KB ,how,s it working out ? know you got a new addition or two.Able to keep everyone happy?

 

[Spiritbird]

For sure my GCC dominates or intimidates my TAG.

 

[KBEquine]

Hey KB ,how,s it working out ? know you got a new addition or two.Able to keep everyone happy?

Well, tomorrow's arrival day for the new additions & I've been having a few awful everything-is-going-wrong days (for example, I lost my driver's license [as in, misplaced it] late last night at Laguardia Airport, of all places. So I've spent today doing damage control.)

So I'll need to give a fuller answer later.

But the short version on the current flock - I've made a couple changes, nothing is worse, some things seem better & having given it a ton of thought, the pattern is that Beaker gets mad when I pay attention to - and hold a long conversation with - someone who isn't him. Which explains for me why it was Gilbert - but none of the other birds - who offended him. It is because Gilbert's a pretty witty conversationalist & I am talking to him like I talk to humans. I talk to the other birds a lot, too, but it is a different kind of conversation.

So we need behavior modification, but I see where it needs to start with me - I'm responding better to Beaker's vocalizations. But I am also making sure that Beaker has better boundaries. [I've always responded to PaulE, which actually makes him less talkative because he is a shy talker & the more I pay attention to him, the less he needs to talk to get my attention).

Mitchell, I had tried the rule of 3 technique, but I'm finding it tricky because I'm also working under the theory 'first avoid getting bitten' and am having trouble making the 2 mesh. One of the only times Beaker bites me is when he wants to be near me & he knows darned well when I am returning him to his cage for a timeout. (Or when I am knowingly ignoring his command to step away from that other human & come to him.)

I've tried stepping him up to a perch but that worked about twice before he started using the perch to launch the attack (and I'm not usually coordinated enough to redirect him with a 2nd perch).

I've tried having other people give him the good treats (he won't take them from a spoon & he bites the hand that feeds him), I've tried trick training with an eye toward having him 'perform' for a treat from a stranger (he acts like he's trying to figure out my end-game & the problem is, he might have figured out my plan) & I've tried working with him in a neutral location (he still goes after whoever is there to help get him accustomed to being handled by strangers).

He is basically overly bonded & knows his audience & I don't have anyone around who is a good enough bird-person - or who likes him enough - to risk the bite. For all his muted color & small voice, he is a very colorful & communicative guy in his own way.

 

[KBEquine]

P.S. - Can you believe I called that the short version??????

 

[Pedro]

I think it's little bird syndrome. LOL. They think they are 10 foot high & bullet proof.

Even baby GCC'S only 8 weeks old can gang up on a eclectus chick of the same age. On a few occasions I have heard a eclectus baby scream & run to see why only to find a GCC has fledged & landed in the baby eccy's box & really getting stuck into it, pulling feathers & biting the poor thing.

And yet i have some that I can cage together & they all get on really well.

 

[KBEquine]

I think it's little bird syndrome. LOL. They think they are 10 foot high & bullet proof.

Exactly. I sometimes refer to him as "the feathered ego."

 

[KBEquine]

Well, good news for the Grey . . . Goose, the macaw, brought a MUCH taller cage with him to my house. Beaker the Pionus could care less about Gilbert the Greyt's cage, now. He has his beady little eye on Goose's cage . . .

 

[roxynoodle]

LOL! I love that photo! Your Beaker is a little Napolean, isn't he?