Aggression when near cage and cagemate?

[attycakes]

Hi everyone!

We have two senegal parrots, Atty and Joey, who are about 10 years old. We got them both back in December 2007 when I was 16. When we first got them, they defiinitely played the notorious "picking of favorites" when it came to members of our family but I was always in good graces with them. I regrettably wish that we knew more about them when we brought them into our home and I had done the research that I have today to know how to best care for them.

For the first 4-5 years, both Atty and Joey were in separate cages, but always incredibly close to each other (they are siblings and have always been together, never aggressive with each other). However, when my brother and I went off to college, they stayed home with my parents and became distanced from me. To make life "easier" for my mom who primarily would care for them, they got a double-sized cage and housed them together. Truth be told, they did not receive a lot of out of cage time. Maybe 3-4 toys to play with in the cage, and their "play time" was standing on a perch outside of the cage with a few toys attached and from what I have learned now was essentially birdy prison and not very enriching, engaging, or healthy.

The male, Joey, started to have issues coming out of the cage with aggression/fear. He has a slightly webbed right foot according to our vet, so his grip is not strong as it naturally should be so he is very flighty when on your hand. Long story short, they would run to the top of the cage when it was "time to play" and my mom would use a pillow to place in the cage to get him to step on. This stemmed from Atty, the female, never liking my mom from day one and wanting to nip her and my mother being very fearful of this. Joey hated the pillow and would grab and bite it viciously but then give in and step on it. This literally has been the way to take them out of the cage for the last 4-5 years of their life.

Now, they have a MUCH better cage at my persistence to give them a healthier life but are still housed together. Atty loves to come out and steps up no problem, but Joey is a completely different story. He has turned from being a parrot who craved love and would say "Pet me!" and lower his head as he stepped up onto my hand to scritch the back of his head to now slamming his beak into the bar of the cage and grinding them in an attempt to grab and bite me. He will climb through the cage trying to "bite" me as I walk by. If I am on the side where Atty is, he will growl and pin his eyes and immediately run over and try to get me to "back off". I realize through tons of reading on body language that this is what I believe to be not only territorial aggression but also aggression at me being nearby to the bird who he perceives to be his mate.

Now, I know this is a wild ride with two parrots not living in the best situation and it has caused a lot of issues. Somehow, Atty is completely unphased by this and upon returning from college, it was as if I had never left. She is exactly the same loving and sweet little birdy. Joey has turned into the bird from hell when it comes to trying to handle him BUT I do NOT blame him!! He has been essentially trained into acting aggressively.

So now that I am moving back down, I plan to take these two babies with me because I know that I can give them the time, patience, love, and enrichment that they need. Right now, they are put in a separate room and are more of a chore than an enjoyment. I plan on dedicating a room specifically to them where they can fly, train, and eat healthier. I also will be making sure to dedicate social time with them outside of the room with my fiance and I as well.

After all said and done, I am completely lost on how to help Joey and gain his trust once again. Right now, his actions with me are follows:

1.) Trying to bite/follows to bite inside cage when I walk by or get very close.
2.) Will "fake" step up - raises his foot and says sweetly "step up!" but when he gets on my finger and bites down HARD!! He clamps on and grinds, breaking skin 9/10 time but I do very good to not shout or react. Sometimes if he won't let go I will "drop" my hand to make him flap his wings to regain his balance and this will get him to let go. He usually turns and grabs onto his cage instead afterwards.
3.) Will not let me pick him up to put him back into his cage if he is out - the second my hand goes into the cage with him on it, he will lunge at me the second he is on his perch - huge cage aggression

So far, my progress with him and what I plan to do is this:

1.) I can sit down by the cage (before he would start growling when I entered the room) and I can softly talk to him. He will walk close up to me but won't try to bite me through the cage bars yet.
2.) If he is on the cage door outside of the cage, I can feed him treats but I have to do it at a distance - making him stretch a bit to reach it so he can't bite.
3.) I coo and talk with him and he will respond, usually fluffing his feather, talking back, and preening himself while I do so. I have to move very carefully when doing this otherwise his eyes will pin and he will immediately throw his beak at the bars like he wants to get me though.

My first step would be to separate both Atty and Joey into their own independent cage when I take them on fully. The cage aggression / mate aggression seemed to begin the most when they were housed together 4-5 years ago. I think this led to a little aggression / nipping in the beginning and was only escalated by using pillows to get them out, never letting them have time apart from each other, etc.

I guess what I am asking for is if anyone has any advice on what I can do to rebuild this trust that has been broken? Though I was not the one physically doing these things to our parrots, it has certainly left behavioral issues that were inadvertently trained into him.

What can I do to help build that trust more?
What can I provide that may help with the aggression?
Are there any steps/ideas on how I can redirect and retrain this behavior when it comes to biting when stepped up / cage bar biting?

Thanks in advance!! xx I apologize for the very long ramble, I know it is a lot but I wanted to make it as detailed as possible!

 

[itzjbean]

Thanks for taking these two back after so long -- it's awesome that Atty is just the same as you remember her being, however it isn't unheard of to have an aggressive bird result from being in the cage and picked up the way they were.

I really do believe, with enough time, patience and love, you can earn Joey's trust back!

However this will take dedication and commitment on your part and daily work. It won't happen overnight, but when you do finally earn his trust again it will be magical!

You mentioned you were able to sit by his cage and talk softly to him. That's good. Do this multiple times a day to start. Does Joey have a favorite treat he enjoys? Pepper, a piece of fruit, sunflower seed perhaps?

Basically, you want to start making EVERY SINGLE interaction with him a positive one. That means any time he sees you, offer a treat. Drop it in the food bowl so he can see you do it, slowly, while talking to him softly, but don't directly reward him through the cage bars if he is being aggressive. Keep showing him that you are good, and good things happen when you're around.

Is there a way you can pick up Atty, and have Joey follow on your hand behind? With my tiel pair, one would not step up unless the other one did first. Or, have a treat ready in your hand so Joey is enticed to step up onto you and have a tasty reason to do so.

Provide as many toys, perches and variety in their diet as much as you can. Getting over the cage aggression may just be as easy as keeping the cage door open and providing them a place to climb to get to a play stand area.

Hope this helps!

 

[attycakes]

Thanks for taking these two back after so long -- it's awesome that Atty is just the same as you remember her being, however it isn't unheard of to have an aggressive bird result from being in the cage and picked up the way they were.

I really do believe, with enough time, patience and love, you can earn Joey's trust back!

However this will take dedication and commitment on your part and daily work. It won't happen overnight, but when you do finally earn his trust again it will be magical!

You mentioned you were able to sit by his cage and talk softly to him. That's good. Do this multiple times a day to start. Does Joey have a favorite treat he enjoys? Pepper, a piece of fruit, sunflower seed perhaps?

Basically, you want to start making EVERY SINGLE interaction with him a positive one. That means any time he sees you, offer a treat. Drop it in the food bowl so he can see you do it, slowly, while talking to him softly, but don't directly reward him through the cage bars if he is being aggressive. Keep showing him that you are good, and good things happen when you're around.

Is there a way you can pick up Atty, and have Joey follow on your hand behind? With my tiel pair, one would not step up unless the other one did first. Or, have a treat ready in your hand so Joey is enticed to step up onto you and have a tasty reason to do so.

Provide as many toys, perches and variety in their diet as much as you can. Getting over the cage aggression may just be as easy as keeping the cage door open and providing them a place to climb to get to a play stand area.

Hope this helps!

Thank you so much for the advice! Yes I realize it is going to be a LONG journey and I know that providing them with a healthy environment is only one part of it. I want him to be happy and confident and always feeling safe when I'm around too.

He does have a few treats I know he likes, namely almonds and cashews. He will usually try anything as long as Atty has it first lol. For a while if I gave him a treat, he would just DESTROY it into crumbs onto the floor and look me dead in the eye while he did it, cheeky little bastard lol. But I've made progress at least in seeing that he will actually take time to eat half the treat before he starts to shred it. I think he has gotten so used to anything going near his beak using it to grab and bite he forgets good things come too.

I plan on setting up a little sitting area in the room where I will be keeping them. It's a good size bedroom and primarily I want them to have a separate space because my fiancé has a cat and I don't want to worry so much when they have free play/flight time. But one of the things I plan on doing is as I study over the summer, reading my books aloud in the room by his cage when he's in and out. I want him to start associating me with GOOD things like you said. It will be a slow process but I appreciate your guidance and taking the time to help!
Thank you again!!

 

[EllenD]

Already well-said by Itzjbean, this is just going to be a matter of you committing to working with Joey every single day, by himself, and realizing that it could take months if not years. Clipping his wings initially when you start training/taming him will also help tremendously, as if he can just constantly fly away from you and you're having to chase him all around the room, and this happens constantly when people try to train/tame a flighted bird, it only makes the situation much, much worse.

Also, I would suggest that you NOT locate each of their main-cages (I do agree that they should be separated into their own cages) in a separate "bird-room". Each of their main cages absolutely must be located in whatever room of your home you spend most of your time and where all the people of the home spend most of their time, or the room where "the action is". This is extremely important, as they must be around people, even if the people in the room are not directly interacting with them, just knowing that you are sitting on the couch watching TV or reading a book and they are in the same room with you or whomever will not only drastically help in taming Joey, but it will also teach him to like to entertain himself with his toys, because he will feel much more safe and secure if you and whomever are simply in the same room as him inside his cage. Never put a bird in a special "bird room" that is not where you spend most of your time, as if the bird can hear that you are in the house but they can't see you, this is very, very counterproductive...

 

[jugoya]

It might be a good idea to get him a seperate cage though in the same room so that he can have his own space and so you can work with him and him alone.

I wouldn't remove the female completely but leave the cages side by side.

 

[attycakes]

Thank you everyone, I will take all of the recommendations to heart. I had a good day with him today, while he was out on his cage I was able to hand feed him slivers of almonds and it got to the point where he was calmly coming over the cage to come take them from me. He even let me pick him up when he was off the cage which was very scary but rewarding of a moment. I thought for sure when he was on the cage he was going to turn to try and nip me but he didn't. I placed him on the cage and gave him a treat and he was very happy about that!

In regards to the bird room, I guess I should have expanded on that more. Right now in my parents' home they are in a "bird room" locked away from the rest of the house and like you mentioned, is very counterproductive for them.

Once we move and get settled, the "bird room" is also going to function as our living room and reading space. It is a space that we will be in daily for longer periods of time. I plan on just having a baby gate up in the doorway to keep the cat out (he doesn't jump up over things, he's a very large built maine coon lol) I also will have them out in an area by the porch inside by the kitchen when I am making them food in the mornings and evenings as well. I just wanted to expand on it that the "room" per say is not going to be a locked away space. They will be in an area that they are well exposed to everyone all day. I would love to have them in the foyer part of our home where people walk through constantly throughout the day, but the safety concerns for them are too great in that area.

Thanks again!

 

[attycakes]

Another update: Made huge progress with Joey today! I wanted to do a good clean down of the cage and change some arrangements, I thought mixing up the cage would help him with his cage aggression and he seems calmer now that I have done it.

The hardest part was getting to clean it and take things in/out lol. Because he doesn't let me pick him up and he is very territorial, he usually always is on guard. But he was calm while I took out the trays, swept the floor and wiped off the perches. I was feeding him almonds every time I saw him calm and fluffed up. We have been working on getting more comfortable with my hands so instead of making him reach for larger slivers of almonds, I slowly started moving my hand closer so that I actually would be in "biting range" but he really wanted that treat! I even took a chance and gave him smaller and smaller pieces, to the point where the pieces were so tiny I could barely hold them. He was extremely gentle in taking them from me.

At one point, he was raising his foot because Atty was on my shoulder and he wanted to be near her. Now this is where I got anxious because he loves that "bluff" on getting on my finger and then nailing me when I can't get away easily. I had an almond steadily out of his reach and slowly raised my fingers up in front of him to act as a step. Immediately his eyes started pinning and he did his little "growl" but it was more of a "hmph!" in annoyance than his usualy "uurrr...." I removed the almond and lowered my hands until he calmed again. Then I showed him the almond once more. Immediately he was interested again! I even took one out of the bag and at it myself and told him how delicious it was lol. At this point Atty on my shoulder had a FIT because she was jealous now too. I handed her the sliver of almond that I had offered to Joey and she was happy as can be and NOW he was desparate for a bite of one.

So I did it again, almond just out of reach and finger ready for him to use as a step. And.... he did it. He was just as hesitant as I felt. But he stepped on my fingers, sat for a moment still trying to keep hi balance (at this point I really felt anxious because this is wear he usually gets me). But... he reached forward, took the almond, and I held still so he could slowly step back down onto the cage door. He happily ate his treat and moved to the top of the cage for the rest of the time I worked inside, moving toys and adding little foraging spots. Holy moly.

Anyways, I know at this point this has become a little diary for me to post about the progress he has, But I hope that if anyone else is experiencing the same issues this may help. It will still be another month before we can get a separate cage, but it has been really great getting to spend almost all day in the room with them, interacting, talking etc. I have been surprised by the change I have seen in him already!

 

[Jen5200]

Just wanted to say that it sounds like you are already making really great progress! So glad you are taking care of these two, they’re lucky to have you.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm a little late to this party, but...

Here's a contribution by Moderator Anansi (to another OP, elsewhere) which many found helpful...

"So one of your gcc's has become cage territorial. One thing to remember is that there's no need for you to go through a bloodletting every time you need to take her out. Invest in a perch or perch-like stick and use that to remove her from her sleeping cage. And as you've pointed out, her behavior is fine once she's out.

Many people have birds who are stubbornly territorial, so they use the stick method to bypass this hardwired instinct to protect their "nest".

That said, one thing that sometimes works to snap them out of that behavior is to completely rearrange everything inside of that cage. Perches, toys, foraging activities... the works. Doing so might take her far enough outside of her comfort zone that she no longer views the sleep cage as her nest.

Another tactic is to attach a perch to the inside surface of the sleep cage's door, and then train them to go to that perch whenever they are ready to come out. You'd do this via target training, targeting each of them to the "exit perch" before opening the door. Then, once they are on that perch, you can swing the door open... thus taking them outside of the sleep cage's boundaries. (Of course, that particular method only works for doors that open by swinging from side to side, rather than those that either slide or open and close vertically.)

Another thing to be on the lookout for, btw, is if that territorial aggression begins to manifest against her cage mate. The smaller size of the sleep cage might be the trigger, and unless she's viewing her cage mate as her actual bonded mate, the aggression might not stop with you. If this wound up being the case, you would indeed have to separate them."
__________________

 

[attycakes]

I'm a little late to this party, but...

Here's a contribution by Moderator Anansi (to another OP, elsewhere) which many found helpful...

"So one of your gcc's has become cage territorial. One thing to remember is that there's no need for you to go through a bloodletting every time you need to take her out. Invest in a perch or perch-like stick and use that to remove her from her sleeping cage. And as you've pointed out, her behavior is fine once she's out.

Many people have birds who are stubbornly territorial, so they use the stick method to bypass this hardwired instinct to protect their "nest".

That said, one thing that sometimes works to snap them out of that behavior is to completely rearrange everything inside of that cage. Perches, toys, foraging activities... the works. Doing so might take her far enough outside of her comfort zone that she no longer views the sleep cage as her nest.

Another tactic is to attach a perch to the inside surface of the sleep cage's door, and then train them to go to that perch whenever they are ready to come out. You'd do this via target training, targeting each of them to the "exit perch" before opening the door. Then, once they are on that perch, you can swing the door open... thus taking them outside of the sleep cage's boundaries. (Of course, that particular method only works for doors that open by swinging from side to side, rather than those that either slide or open and close vertically.)

Another thing to be on the lookout for, btw, is if that territorial aggression begins to manifest against her cage mate. The smaller size of the sleep cage might be the trigger, and unless she's viewing her cage mate as her actual bonded mate, the aggression might not stop with you. If this wound up being the case, you would indeed have to separate them."
__________________

Thank you so much for the helpful advice! I really like the idea of the perch on the door, ours swings out and it would be a great "I'm ready to come out!" spot for them. I have Atty target trained a bit, she will touch the end of the stick and walk a few paces to get to it.

One of my biggest hardships with Joey is he is very fearful of new things. This has been a constant with him since we first got him too. Just always very wary and easily frightened. He is fully flighted so usually if he gets spooked he will do a lap or two and then land back on his cage. One of the reasons that I haven't been able to try the T perch method with him to protect my little fingers is because he is afraid of the darn thing. Even when approaching very slowly with it, he will freeze up, stare, and say "oh h*** no" before taking off. I think I will need to approach him even slowler and rewarding him with a treat when he remains calm.

But if anyone has any advice on how to calm him with new things like perches are introduced, that would be great. I have been trying to target train him a bit, but he has a fixation on trying to destroy the end of the stick the second his mouth gets on it. It seems anything that gets near his beak, whether it be perch, stick, toy, cardboard, paper, or new food, gets absolutely chewed to nothing in an instant.

 

[attycakes]

Update!

So it has been a solid week now and I have seen so much improvement with both Atty and Joey! Just incase anyone else is following that is having the same issues, I am doing the following:

- Food AM - Fresh veggies (usually spinach, bell pepper, carrot, and some fruit minced in such as green apple, kiwi, or seedless watermelon) I have been making a small "mash" for them trying to keep to 3-4 veggies and one fruit (Joey is enticed by the fruits to get him interested and is the leader when it comes to testing food for Atty)
- 5-6 hours out of cage time. Honestly, it has probably been more than that all week long as I have been living in my room like a bear in a cave trying to get both birdies comfortable with me in their environment again.
- Atty has been getting about 30 min - 1 hour time personally with and on me. She loves me to walk her around the room to check out all of the cubbies and nooks.
- Limiting daylight hours. They were being left with a light on in the room from AM to 11-12 at night and I have done a lot of research and found this can cause a kick in hormones, so now they have a stricter light schedule dawn-dusk. After the sun has set and it's complete black out, I cover the cage up and say goodnight. They seem much calmer now (or maybe I am imagining it?)
- PM Food - Pellets to eat before bed. I have been trying to limit the pellets to only one part of the day as it seems like with them being to packed of protein/fat it could have been causing more friskiness than necessary.
- Supplementing with treats throughout the day to reinforce good behavior - almonds, pine nuts, pistachios (Atty likes to chew on the shell while Joey eats the nut... ay yi yi...) plain popped popcorn (we use an air popper so no oils, just the kernel), walnuts, plain puffed cereal, oatmeal, and unsalted sunflower kernels.

So since spending more time with them (I'm usually on my bed making them toys, playing music, or just reading up on the internet. My life has been 100% birds and food the last week lol) I have seen a lot of great changes.

They don't screech anymore when I am in the room or walk in. I think they did this as an "alert! person in the room!" because they do it to my mom especially, to the point she has to leave the room. I walk in an its calm and cool (I've also been leaving purposely when they do it when I am in the room so they say hey.. that girl who is giving us all this awesome stuff left when we yelled.. )
They are so QUIET and BUSY!! It makes me so happy, they are running around constantly, going from here to there to play with another toy. I've taken up origami to make foraging boxes, they are so adventurous and it's exactly how I remembered them before I left for school. They are so engaged with everything, it's awesome!
Joey is getting more and more comfortable with me too. I can approach the cage and him with no growling, rarely any puffing up and eye pinning (only when I catch him off guard)

On Monday, we had a small set back when I was talking to him and offering him an almond, my mom walked in the room, they screeched, I missed his body language and he bit the end of my finger. However, it didn't go unnoticed that the bite was slightly less intense than the ones before... He also had a point where he got on my bed when I was on it and CHASED ME OFF! I saw that coming from a mile away, body low to the comforter, eyes pinned, then the little bugger charged at me like a bull seeing red. Never saw a bird run so fast in my life. I realized the cage is so close to the bed, that he probably counted it as his territory too. Moved the cage further away but still close enough that if I keep the door open they can stretch and hop on with me.

That night, I started the daylight limiting and reduced the free-feed of pellets and we have been smooth sailing since. He hopped on my bed today with Atty to show the Amazon boxes whose boss as I opened them up and took out all the new birdy things I got for them and I. He came up to me and I handed him a Nutriberry, never seen him savor and take his time to eat something so much in my entire life. He was very happy about that lol.

I also had an awesome moment with him too. He's been poofin up more lately with me and has been super relaxed today. I took a chance and asked, "Hi Joey, may I pet you? Pet me?" Pet Me is a phrase I taught him that he learned when he was younger, I used to always say it when we would scritch the back of his head because he loved it so much. Got to the point where he would run up to my dad and say PET ME! and shove his head down to get a scratch. Cutest thing ever, but he never says it anymore! I'm sure it is because he has been feeling so unhappy for so long.

Anyways, I say "Pet Me? May I pet you?" He fluffed up, eyes pinned just a tad, but I think he understood what I was trying to tell him because he let me slowly get nearer and nearer (I am sure the pine nut in my hand helped). I scritched the back of his head and my goodness he let me do it! I gave him a pine nut. He proceeded to let me pet him like that five more times, all rewarding with a tasty treat afterwards. Now he is taking a bath and making my floor a mess and I couldn't be happier.

I know that is such a long ramble and no one will probably read that novel of my day but I needed to share and get that out because a month ago I was in tears because I didn't think I could help this poor sweet bird and here I am, getting him to let me pet him over and over and my heart just feels so happy! It can only get better from here. I hope that we will one day get back to how he used to let me carry him through the house on little field trips and watch a movie together.

Anyways, thank you for all the help everyone! I am still on the hunt for a T perch, I may just end up making one myself with some wooden dowels. That's a hill to climb for another day!