ABV tests POSITIVE

YUMgrinder

YUMgrinder

Member
Mar 20, 2017
920
26
Cheyenne, WY
Parrots
-Jazz, Normal Grey Cockatiel /

-Chessie, Pearl Cockatiel /

-Perry, Black capped Conure /

-JoJo, Pineapple GCC /

3 little busy Budgies
I just got a voicemail from the university. Jazz tested positive for ABV in blood, and Chessie tested positive only in feces. So basically, they both have it, and probably has spread to the flock. No breeding for these guys ever. No more additions to the flock either. I'll stop the budgies from breeding too. This is a disaster. How long can I expect them to live now? I don't know what to do.

I'm devastated. :(
 
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I guess I should have known. I was so ignorant to it I knew cheddar had it but I was convinced the rest of the flock was spared. Thanks to all of you who pushed to get tested (even though my original local vet said it was impossible to test for). I am thankful to have Colorado state university so close. Of course I love all my birds, I'm especially devastated that Jazz has it, as he is my ESA. Losing him is a scary thought. Losing any of them to this will be a shame. They don't deserve it. To think this came from a pet store really pisses me off. saving cheddar from them ultimately means my whole flock suffers now. shame shame shame.
 
I’m so sorry to hear your bad news YUM, I think you knew in your heart that this was likely but I cannot begin to imagine how devastated you must be to have had it confirmed. I hope the vet school is able to offer you good advice and support. My heart is breaking for you!
 
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Anyone else here live with ABV?
 
This is not good new at all. I hope for the best, but at least you know what to expect and look out? Your vet could help, but as far as a cure, there isn't one and complete recoveries or a long-term is rare. Usually you still get a few good years more successful prolonging the bird’s life and try your best to give them a decent life.

The problem is this virus is not restricted to the nervous system, it commonly spreads to all the major organs, including heart, liver, adrenals, and the kidneys.

If it PDD the first signs may notice is a lack of activity in their parrot, disinterest in its environment and a sleepy attitude. I think of them as having a generalized bedraggled look. When handled, it is usually quite apparent that they have lost weight in their breast area, which one of your gain weight? These parrots usually continue to eat — but as the disease progresses, often notice that their stools have changed. What was once a homogeneous greenish stool is now gritty with undigested food particles and seeds. These parrots often begin to regurgitate (vomit). In some, their crops become visibly enlarged.

They may temporarily improve when given antibiotics. They have their good and their bad days or weeks but their long-term health remains in general decline.

Neurological Signs

Bornavirus not only has the potential to attack the nerves in your parrot’s digestive system, it is quite likely to destroy nerves in other areas, particularly the bird’s brain and spinal cord. Signs of that destruction can appear suddenly or as a gradual decline. Parrots with his form of PDD may just appear weak, or they may loose their ability to stay on the perch, walk, or just appear clumsy. Also loose ability to fly. One leg or wing or both might be equally affected. Head tremors and shaking might occur and, occasionally, these birds suffer from personality changes or seizures. EllenD mention this before and started to touch on it.

Exactly why this occurs is not yet known. Some virus cause disease by actually destroying cells. But there are a few that cause the release of body chemicals that cause the pet’s own immune system to rush to the area causing a chronic inflammation that eventually destroys the body’s own tissue. The most common virus of that type that veterinarians struggle with is the coronavirus of cats responsible for feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Avian bornavirus may well be another.

In the digestive tract form of avian bornavirus infection, the local nerve centers (myenteric plexuses) in the walls of your parrots digestive system that are responsible for normal motility (peristalsis) are slowly destroyed by a mixture of the parrot’s own immune cells (lymphocytes and plasma cells).

Without that normal wave action in the bird’s digestive tract, food backs up and is not properly digested or absorbed. The most common place for that to first occur is in the bird’s fore-stomach or proventriculus. Without the ability to properly digest food, food ingredients pass through the bird without much change in their composition. The blockages that occur also make the parrot susceptible to bacterial and fungal infections and overgrowth. Birds in this condition must fall back to living on their fat and muscle stores which is why their breast muscles shrink so profoundly. The parrot’s crop also relies on peristalsis to move food along. So crop impactions (blockages) are common as well.

When it is the birds central nervous system (CNS) where the majority of the inflammation is occurring, owners will see a wide variety of neurological (nerve-related) symptoms as the bird looses control of its body.

Bornavirus can also affect the nerves that keep the heart beating (Purkinje Fibers) leading to sudden death. Portions of its adrenal glands are modified nerve cells too. (ref) Their destruction can occasionally cause a parrot with ABV to die without prior warning.

The bornavirus dissemeinates throughout the body of birds. It is even possible that we might learn that some cases of kidney disease (avian gout) were related to its presence.

The bottom line is that the disease is characterized by a specific inflammatory pattern found around nerves that causes the target organ to fail. If the affected nerves supply the proventiculus (stomach), food passes undigested and the bird wastes away and starves to death. If nerves in the brain are affected, the bird may suffer from seizures and strange neurological abnormalities. If the nerves to the eyes are affected, the bird can become blind. Wherever nerves can be found, they can be affected by this disease. An affected bird may show only gastrointestinal or neurologic signs in addition to a combination of both.

Can PDS Be Treated Successfully ?
Is There A Cure ?

There is no known cure for avian bornavirus infection. But some veterinarians claim successful treatments or, at the least, successful prolonging the bird’s life. The most promising treatment has been to suppress the parrot’s own inflammatory response. The most effective drug for that has been an NSAID called celecoxib (Celebrex).

Many veterinarians and aviculturists believe that birds under stress are more likely to develop PDD/ABV symptoms than those that are not. That is the case in many diseases. So you veterinarian will advise you on the best ways to provide a low-stress lifestyle, a highly nutritious and easily digestible diet and perhaps supplemental vitamins for your pet.

There may be times when the parrot will need supplemental fluids (parenteral fluids) and medications to control vomiting and aid in intestinal transit and digestion (metaclopramide, cisapride, apple pectins, etc)

There may also be times when antibiotics or anti-fungal drugs are required.

Complete recoveries or a long-term, restabilized condition are rare — but they do occasionally occur.

That said, no vet or owner gives up lightly on a beloved parrot. So just about every medication is being tried (interferons, various anti-viral medications, amantadine, ribavirin, gabapentin etc.). The variability of how individual cases of PDD/ABV progress make it very difficult to determine if any of these treatments actually help
 
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Jason, one thing you could look into, if any of your flock easily eat pellet, is Roudybush makes a pellet specifically for birds with PDD. You have to contact the company directly and have a prescription from your veterinarian but I've heard good things from people who have used it for their ABV positive birds as far as it being able to keep weight on them.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
I am so very sorry! If you have a good relationship with your original vet, you may want to pass this information along! If their issue is ignorance, that can be fixed, stupidity? No!
As hard as it will be, a completely nonconfrontational approach will educate and not alienate!
I pray for many good years for you and your family!
 
Sending positive vibes your way. I’m so sorry your having to go through this.
 
YUMgrinder said:
I just got a voicemail from the university. Jazz tested positive for ABV in blood, and Chessie tested positive only in feces. So basically, they both have it, and probably has spread to the flock. No breeding for these guys ever. No more additions to the flock either. I'll stop the budgies from breeding too. This is a disaster. How long can I expect them to live now? I don't know what to do.

I'm devastated. :(
Click to expand...

Through all the research I have done on Avian Bornavirus. A bird can live its entire life with it without issues. Its when the Immune System goes down that it really becomes an issue. It's extremely contagious, so it is extremely likely that the rest of your flock has it. But if you keep them at constant health and make sure their immune System is well. It shouldn't be an issue. However, this is just what I have learned through my research on ABV. Some of what I have learned could be wrong. I had a budgie pass away and when her body was tested to rule out her cause of death. She was positive for ABV, PDD. My other birds now have to be constantly vet checked to check their health. However, it has been a while since the passing of my budgie. So even though ABV isn't a joke at all, my vet is not as concerned with it as long as I keep frequent checks on my birds. And limit stress.
 
I am SO sorry you had to find out - on the other hand, now you know...
Not every bird will get sick, not every sick bird will get extremely sick etc.etc.. so just hope for the best.
Forewarned is forearmed.


It is just important to keep in mind when having friends over/ visiting friends who have birds of their own.
You have a few 'typhoid mary's ' in your house, now its up to you not to spread it.
So get used to a bit of a hospital regime: washing hands before you leave the house every single time etc..

(because if you are like me you will not remember if you cuddled a bird or not)

Most of us have 'inside (parrot) clothes' and 'outside/ human-interaction acceptable clothes' anyway.
You really need a few sets now.
 
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I would separate them immediately is the next step. One is current trying to shed the virus thereby infecting the environment and other birds. Get the rest tested when you have the funds available one by one, so you have a baseline to work off, as you will know which has it the virus and which doesn't and can plan better. They may have the virus but doesn't necessary mean the have PDD disease yet? I do know that genotype II can cause disease more rapidly and severely in cockatiels than infection with genotype IV. Also the presence of serum (blood test) antigangliosides antibodies (recognized autoimmune markers that seem to be correlated with nerve fiber injury).

One of your Cockatiel Chessie is the one that likely currently infecting the others currently. Plus she the one I and EllenD suspected earlier due to "Neurological issues" not being able to fly and randomly losing control and orientation and then regaining it. That signs of PDD disease, is likely what she has? I was hoping it turn out to be hormonal and not PDD. With her it likely not just the ABV Avian Bornavirus anymore and likely she has PDD disease, plus is currently trying to shed the virus and infecting the area. Put her in a different room.

Testing is generally directed at identifying the presence of the virus and/or antibodies against the virus. Getting a positive avian bornavirus test (general PCR that checks for the presence of the virus) only means the bird is infected and not necessarily diseased. Again, this test generally does not give genotype information but rather infection with a member of the avian bornavirus family. This type of test is more commonly performed and commercially available in the US. Getting a positive antibody titer implies the bird’s immune system has recognized the infection and is attempting to fight the virus.

Diagnosis of PDD can only definitively be made by identifying the classic lesions in affected nerve tissue. This of course means biopsying affected nerve tissue! Because the lesions can be randomly scattered or inaccessible (the brain and spinal cord) on a live bird, we are not always able to get a definitive diagnosis. Our next best option is a presumptive diagnosis based on clinical signs (consistent with PDD) and supportive blood tests (positive avian bornavirus PCR and/or anti-viral antibodies). As a note of caution, PDD clinical signs can mimic many diseases and a positive avian bornavirus blood test does NOT equal PDD!!!

Treatment options are limited generally to anti-inflammatories. Only a few different drugs have been trialed to treat parrots with PDD. "This will help keep it under control, talk to your avian veterinarian about this"

What does this all mean???

1. Avian bornavirus has been confirmed to cause PDD in parrots and both the virus and disease can be found in captive and wild populations.

2. There are seven genotypes of avian bornavirus, all of which likely have different infective and disease causing capabilities. Other genotypes of avian bornavirus can infect non-parrot birds.

3. An infected bird may shed virus through multiple routes, thereby infecting the environment and other birds, long before it shows any clinical signs (if ever). "This is what one of you birds is currently doing"

4. General avian bornavirus (PCR) testing at least determines which birds carry the virus and can be used to isolate infected from non-infected birds. "This is next step you need to take"

5. Diagnosis of PDD is still frustrating and challenging, but at least the identification of avian bornavirus and newly available tests can help.
Treatment options are generally limited to supportive care and anti-inflammatories.

6. Talk with you avian veterinarian about the latest options for preventing, diagnosing and treating PDD as our understanding of this disease is changing rapidly!
 
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Get some F10 SC veterinary disinfectant and clean the cages and area thoroughly. Make sure contact time with liquid is 10 minutes, then after cleaning the cage steam clean it. This will disinfect the area and keep them separated.

Your budgies may not have the virus since they were in a different cage and room. Also use the F10 SC veterinary disinfectant to clean area cage was in toys and ETC.

Doing this will help keeping the others from getting the virus and may help Jazz to fight the virus before it becomes PDD.
 
Riverpet100 said:
YUMgrinder said:
I just got a voicemail from the university. Jazz tested positive for ABV in blood, and Chessie tested positive only in feces. So basically, they both have it, and probably has spread to the flock. No breeding for these guys ever. No more additions to the flock either. I'll stop the budgies from breeding too. This is a disaster. How long can I expect them to live now? I don't know what to do.

I'm devastated. :(
Click to expand...

Through all the research I have done on Avian Bornavirus. A bird can live its entire life with it without issues. Its when the Immune System goes down that it really becomes an issue. It's extremely contagious, so it is extremely likely that the rest of your flock has it. But if you keep them at constant health and make sure their immune System is well. It shouldn't be an issue. However, this is just what I have learned through my research on ABV. Some of what I have learned could be wrong. I had a budgie pass away and when her body was tested to rule out her cause of death. She was positive for ABV, PDD. My other birds now have to be constantly vet checked to check their health. However, it has been a while since the passing of my budgie. So even though ABV isn't a joke at all, my vet is not as concerned with it as long as I keep frequent checks on my birds. And limit stress.
Click to expand...


This is true as some can fight the virus so it won't become PDD, but not all? He has to separate them and clean and disinfect area. As do suspect one has PDD and not just the ABV virus anymore and very hard to test for PDD as requires biopsy of infected nerve tissue and maybe lesions can be randomly scattered or inaccessible (the brain and spinal cord) on a live bird. Chessie shows signs of PDD already.
 
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ParrotGenie said:
I would separate them immediately is the next step. One is current trying to shed the virus thereby infecting the environment and other birds. Get the rest tested when you have the funds available one by one, so you have a baseline to work off, as you will know which has it the virus and which doesn't and can plan better. They may have the virus but doesn't necessary mean the have PDD disease yet? I do know that genotype II can cause disease more rapidly and severely in cockatiels than infection with genotype IV. Also the presence of serum (blood test) antigangliosides antibodies (recognized autoimmune markers that seem to be correlated with nerve fiber injury).

One of your Cockatiel Chessie is the one that likely currently infecting the others currently. Plus she the one I and EllenD suspected earlier due to "Neurological issues" not being able to fly and randomly losing control and orientation and then regaining it. That signs of PDD disease, is likely what she has? I was hoping it turn out to be hormonal and not PDD. With her it likely not just the ABV Avian Bornavirus anymore and likely she has PDD disease, plus is currently trying to shed the virus and infecting the area. Put her in a different room.

Testing is generally directed at identifying the presence of the virus and/or antibodies against the virus. Getting a positive avian bornavirus test (general PCR that checks for the presence of the virus) only means the bird is infected and not necessarily diseased. Again, this test generally does not give genotype information but rather infection with a member of the avian bornavirus family. This type of test is more commonly performed and commercially available in the US. Getting a positive antibody titer implies the bird’s immune system has recognized the infection and is attempting to fight the virus.

Diagnosis of PDD can only definitively be made by identifying the classic lesions in affected nerve tissue. This of course means biopsying affected nerve tissue! Because the lesions can be randomly scattered or inaccessible (the brain and spinal cord) on a live bird, we are not always able to get a definitive diagnosis. Our next best option is a presumptive diagnosis based on clinical signs (consistent with PDD) and supportive blood tests (positive avian bornavirus PCR and/or anti-viral antibodies). As a note of caution, PDD clinical signs can mimic many diseases and a positive avian bornavirus blood test does NOT equal PDD!!!

Treatment options are limited generally to anti-inflammatories. Only a few different drugs have been trialed to treat parrots with PDD. "This will help keep it under control, talk to your avian veterinarian about this"

What does this all mean???

1. Avian bornavirus has been confirmed to cause PDD in parrots and both the virus and disease can be found in captive and wild populations.

2. There are seven genotypes of avian bornavirus, all of which likely have different infective and disease causing capabilities. Other genotypes of avian bornavirus can infect non-parrot birds.

3. An infected bird may shed virus through multiple routes, thereby infecting the environment and other birds, long before it shows any clinical signs (if ever). "This is what one of you birds is currently doing"

4. General avian bornavirus (PCR) testing at least determines which birds carry the virus and can be used to isolate infected from non-infected birds. "This is next step you need to take"

5. Diagnosis of PDD is still frustrating and challenging, but at least the identification of avian bornavirus and newly available tests can help.
Treatment options are generally limited to supportive care and anti-inflammatories.

6. Talk with you avian veterinarian about the latest options for preventing, diagnosing and treating PDD as our understanding of this disease is changing rapidly!
Click to expand...

I think it most likely came from cheddar, and while she was alive she lived with jazz my male tiel. Now jazz and chessie live together. My other two conures have their own cage. The budgies don't interact with the rest of the flock. Thanks for the info. Theres so much. are you saying, jazz has ABV (not developed into PDD) and chessie has the developed PDD? and now chessie can spread PDD to jazz?
 
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YUMgrinder said:
ParrotGenie said:
I would separate them immediately is the next step. One is current trying to shed the virus thereby infecting the environment and other birds. Get the rest tested when you have the funds available one by one, so you have a baseline to work off, as you will know which has it the virus and which doesn't and can plan better. They may have the virus but doesn't necessary mean the have PDD disease yet? I do know that genotype II can cause disease more rapidly and severely in cockatiels than infection with genotype IV. Also the presence of serum (blood test) antigangliosides antibodies (recognized autoimmune markers that seem to be correlated with nerve fiber injury).

One of your Cockatiel Chessie is the one that likely currently infecting the others currently. Plus she the one I and EllenD suspected earlier due to "Neurological issues" not being able to fly and randomly losing control and orientation and then regaining it. That signs of PDD disease, is likely what she has? I was hoping it turn out to be hormonal and not PDD. With her it likely not just the ABV Avian Bornavirus anymore and likely she has PDD disease, plus is currently trying to shed the virus and infecting the area. Put her in a different room.

Testing is generally directed at identifying the presence of the virus and/or antibodies against the virus. Getting a positive avian bornavirus test (general PCR that checks for the presence of the virus) only means the bird is infected and not necessarily diseased. Again, this test generally does not give genotype information but rather infection with a member of the avian bornavirus family. This type of test is more commonly performed and commercially available in the US. Getting a positive antibody titer implies the bird’s immune system has recognized the infection and is attempting to fight the virus.

Diagnosis of PDD can only definitively be made by identifying the classic lesions in affected nerve tissue. This of course means biopsying affected nerve tissue! Because the lesions can be randomly scattered or inaccessible (the brain and spinal cord) on a live bird, we are not always able to get a definitive diagnosis. Our next best option is a presumptive diagnosis based on clinical signs (consistent with PDD) and supportive blood tests (positive avian bornavirus PCR and/or anti-viral antibodies). As a note of caution, PDD clinical signs can mimic many diseases and a positive avian bornavirus blood test does NOT equal PDD!!!

Treatment options are limited generally to anti-inflammatories. Only a few different drugs have been trialed to treat parrots with PDD. "This will help keep it under control, talk to your avian veterinarian about this"

What does this all mean???

1. Avian bornavirus has been confirmed to cause PDD in parrots and both the virus and disease can be found in captive and wild populations.

2. There are seven genotypes of avian bornavirus, all of which likely have different infective and disease causing capabilities. Other genotypes of avian bornavirus can infect non-parrot birds.

3. An infected bird may shed virus through multiple routes, thereby infecting the environment and other birds, long before it shows any clinical signs (if ever). "This is what one of you birds is currently doing"

4. General avian bornavirus (PCR) testing at least determines which birds carry the virus and can be used to isolate infected from non-infected birds. "This is next step you need to take"

5. Diagnosis of PDD is still frustrating and challenging, but at least the identification of avian bornavirus and newly available tests can help.
Treatment options are generally limited to supportive care and anti-inflammatories.

6. Talk with you avian veterinarian about the latest options for preventing, diagnosing and treating PDD as our understanding of this disease is changing rapidly!
Click to expand...

I think it most likely came from cheddar, and while she was alive she lived with jazz my male tiel. Now jazz and chessie live together. My other two conures have their own cage. The budgies don't interact with the rest of the flock. Thanks for the info. Theres so much. are you saying, jazz has ABV (not developed into PDD) and chessie has the developed PDD? and now chessie can spread PDD to jazz?
Click to expand...
It quite complicated. Jazz right now has ABV the virus and his immune system right now is fighting off the virus keeping it from turning into PDD disease. Which a bird can live its entire life with it without issues as someone here stated earlier and stay a virus and he just is a carrier pretty much. Its when the Immune System goes down that it really becomes an issue and become PDD. So best to keep Jazz healthy and limit stress and keep him from other birds. He may then live his entire lifespan without issues.
 
To be the blunt b@stard here (again)

Not sure if I remember it right, but you have some of your birds breeding atm?
Stop that immediately ( if you have eggs: boil 'm, no matter how far along they are).

You want all your birds in prime condition just in case, that means no breeding!

It's a virus, that means it can get/ have gotten anywhere.
(transported by) Hands, clothes, shoes, washing the feeding/drinking cups together, cleaning the cages with the same brush/rag/bucket etc..

Give *all* your birds a fighting chance against this virus by not letting them waste their energy on other projects.
(and who woud take in possibly contaminated babies anyway?)
 
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ChristaNL said:
To be the blunt b@stard here (again)

Not sure if I remember it right, but you have some of your birds breeding atm?
Stop that immediately ( if you have eggs: boil 'm, no matter how far along they are).

You want all your birds in prime condition just in case, that means no breeding!

It's a virus, that means it can get/ have gotten anywhere.
(transported by) Hands, clothes, shoes, washing the feeding/drinking cups together, cleaning the cages with the same brush/rag/bucket etc..

Give *all* your birds a fighting chance against this virus by not letting them waste their energy on other projects.
(and who woud take in possibly contaminated babies anyway?)
Click to expand...

Good points, Jason stated in the OP he would stop breeding and additions.
 
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Took Spike and Mercury my two baby cockatiels first real bath today.

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