A Sun Conure and African Grey??

[Davesgirl93]

So, the story is this:

I own Comet, 4 years old. Very sweet, loving parrot. Spends most waking moments with me or my hubby. He's been exposed to a friends bird, and he was curious about the black capped conure, Skittles, but not really friendly. Skittles isn't the best of birds either, he's pretty bitey in general. Very tempermental so they interactions are short and they are allowed to choose to be close or separate.

My Mother in law owns an African grey. 18 years old, he used to be people friendly and easily handled. She had a family member temprarorily taking care of him for a little while several years back and when she got him back apparently he was never the same. He's bonded to her now and isn't all that friendly with other humans. Not sure about other birds. He's not aggressive, per sey, but I wouldn't reach for him to step up - though he may choose to fly to you.

My mother in law says she has a diagnosis that may give her 2 or 3 years and she's asked for my help either taking her bird or re-homing him before she goes so its not traumatic for the bird. I'm thinking of starting off with regular visits to see how he reacts to me and my bird. I'm sure it would take a long time to know comfortably what that answer is.

IF I were to try to keep him (he is a male, no idea what my Comet is), how would someone proceed with introductions. I've been reading some and it sounds like slowly is the best option. He's such a bid bird i'm afraid of them even being in the same room if not both caged. I have a travel carrier but Comet doesn't care for it and would be stressed to be in it. I can take him over there (and have been over a few times - Comet never gets left at home if I can help it), but what sort of interaction should I be encouraging while trying to gain the African Grey's trust (Spooky is his name), between the birds. Comet spends most of his time tucked in my shirt, on my shoulder or very close to me.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions are all welcome. Because we may possibly have some time to make this work, I'd like to try. There is always the possibility that something very sudden could occur and the transition would have to be immediate.

Sorry for the long post!

 

[texsize]

Complicated subject but I will give you my abridged version.
After appropriate quarantine period.
2 methods.
Two cages close together. Let them get use to each other and slowly move them closer. If antagonist keep them apart. If they get along they may start grooming each other and your in good shape.

Second method has more risk. Introduce them to each other outside of cages in neutral traitory. Have to be ready to intervene if things go badly.

First method is safer but slower.

Just my opinion.
I have used both and had both good and disappointing results with both methods.

 

[ChristaNL]

Wow, this forum is full of goodbyes to come and near misses of those ...
so sorry to hear this is happening to you and your family.

If the grey already flies to you- do not worrie, you'll do fine (if you dare).
Imho greys will test you only once (a few times) and then sort of settle down, so stand your ground the first few times around that bigger beak and you'll be okay.

Introducing anyhting of anyone to a grey: just do not stick it 'in their face', the moment you start pushing they will avoid, ignore or fight free of it (run away or attack).
So if you start willing your birds to be together...that's pushing it.

Just bribe the grey: everytime your bird arrives it is munchies/ scritches whatever floats the greys boat.
Thats it...let it draw it own conclusions.
new bird -> nice things happen
new bird = nice?
oooooh
new bird = nice!

(it's how I introduce visitors to my 2 grey nutcases, and it works)


Let them find each other, and as always, be prepared to interfere but be relaxed.
If you tense up they will (mis)read it as a dangerous situation and you will cause what you wanted to avoid.
(LOL, so much for the fun part eh )

 

[Davesgirl93]

Thanks all, last night I visited without Comet, donning snacks and favorite treats. I'm all about positive reinforcement. I'd like him to trust me first and foremost. Since he won't be living with us during this time, the cages being situated close wouldn't be an option unless something sudden happens, but I'll keep that in my toolbox in case that happens. This bird's cage is huge, like Macaw sized I don't even know where I'd put it!

Usually Comet is with me but last night I left him home. Spooky was open to my giving treats, didn't try nipping at me through his cage or anything aggressive. He's only ever flown to me once and it was an accident (he missed his mom as she went out a door) but he didn't freak out but he looked very seriously at me, and I walked over to his cage a leaned over and he climbed off with no incident.

Its her advice that I let him come to me, she said she would never advise anyone reach for him, he's unpredictable. She said she's been bit only a handful of times, but its often her fault. She mostly lets him do what he wants, he's not in the cage all that often, and has ropes and toys that hang from the ceiling over his cage to encourage him to stay near the cage. He seems to like it - he's often sitting on top of his cage or at her computer desk eating her keyboard keys. She can't type my name anymore in an email so the other day I setup a new keyboard for her.

He doesn't puff up when I enter the room or anything but I really can't get a read on him, I can't see his eyes well to see if he's pinning or not so I just have to go slow and try to read his other body language. When I arrived yesterday he started shivering in his cage when I approached so I backed off and sat across the room for a little bit. When he calmed down I offered treats and he took them very nicely, so hopefully he was being genuine! He really scares me! That beak!

 

[ChristaNL]

Hahahaha, go spend time with some macaws, then a gray beak wont look all that scary.

(I am serious: my friends were *very* intimidated by the greys; they are catpeople and the closest one of them ever got to something parotlike was a 'tiel. So...very respectfull of them, till Sunny moved in and they got used to seeing something double that size )

Greys are really not difficult to read at all once to learn to see the difference between "hard eye" and "soft eye" (no it's not pinning, they do that pretty much at will anyway- so I ignore that).
It's about a focus or not so much tension.
I will try to find some pictures for you of what I mean, I am not good at describing things today. (First I have to go to work for a bit- sorry.)

 

[Davesgirl93]

Hahahaha, go spend time with some macaws, then a gray beak wont look all that scary.

(I am serious: my friends were *very* intimidated by the greys; they are catpeople and the closest one of them ever got to something parotlike was a 'tiel. So...very respectfull of them, till Sunny moved in and they got used to seeing something double that size )

Greys are really not difficult to read at all once to learn to see the difference between "hard eye" and "soft eye" (no it's not pinning, they do that pretty much at will anyway- so I ignore that).
It's about a focus or not so much tension.
I will try to find some pictures for you of what I mean, I am not good at describing things today. (First I have to go to work for a bit- sorry.)

These darned jobs are a serious problem, its interfering with my bird obsession :14:

 

[ChristaNL]

I was looking for the obvious and easy ones first

nobody needs help with this one of course:
http://www.112groningen.nl/data/fotos/2009/05/29/211725/dsc1349.jpg

or recognize the "I am busy and focused" - but not stressed or defensive
https://www.licg.nl/media/1093/grijze-roodstaart_740x433.jpg
You see how this bird is looking but not really focused (eyes) on the toy?
(he looks just a tiny bit crosseyed - like using the periferal vision and not the focus)

look at these two:
https://www.gezelschapsdierenklinie...gaai+groot.jpg?scaleType=1&width=450&ext=.jpg
their eyes are open, and alert, but they are not *looking*looking at each other
(not boring holes with their eyes -> if they start getting that very focused look you are in trouble)


this is the one that gets people in trouble:
(and got greys a bad reputation)
https://img.tweedehands.nl/f/normal/450981688_1-grijze-roodstaart-papegaaitjes.jpg
you would think he wants scritches?
Well, maybe he does...maybe he does not.
The feathers say "sure?"go ahead" but the eyes are hard/ tense and focussed on the finger...
maybe if you go ahead and scratch the right way the eyes wil soften and unfocus a tiny bit, and be like the previous pictures,
maybe the bird has learned to play tricks on humans and the next move will be a snake-attack (mock or real)
(there are many more options of coure, I am simplifying)

I usually take the gamble at this point and try anyway (arrogant in my scritching abilities and the fact I may just be fast enough to get out of the way -they do change their breathing before they lunge, if a bird goes very still- something fast will happen after that).


now for the secrets:

I have one *huge*(maybe unfair) advantage in dealing with greys: my eyesight sucks!
So I have issues with focusing - and usually manage to do so only with one eye and I automatically tilt my head for the best vieuw -> somehow this comes over as unagressive and unthreatening.

So: do not "do the predator" and stare at the bird (it is something we humans automatically do when we are nervous and 'want to make sure') and if you can, just use one eye and the headtilt sideways if you *have* to focus because you do not trust the bird yet (and want to keep your fingers in one piece )...

Think about the cutest, loveliest thing/person/animal etc. you've ever encountered and feel it -> your eyes wil get that soft look (because you go all fuzzy and relaxed) and the bird will relax with you.
(unless its completely traumatized, but even then it will help a bit)


so one more time:
focused, but not really "boring holes eyes"
https://www.dierenkliniektiel.nl/wp-content/uploads/Grijze-roodstaart-AS-1024x682.jpg
and "really looking hard at you" http://img.wikisailor.com/upload/f/3b/f3b99c6392b01986cc161b89521a767f.jpg
see how the eye is more glassy-looking, that is not just a trick of the light, that is tension.


and a nice mix: http://www.babyvogels.nl/images/grijze-roodstaart-papegaai/grijzeroodstaart-papegaai-15.jpg,
a very focused human, a focusing on the job but not a care in the world babyparrot with a soft eye and the watchfull, alert but not overly stressed sibling.


Maybe not the best examples- but these I found with a short round of browsing.
I hope this helps a bit? Or are you now more confused than ever?


(LOL I may be completely mistaken, but these work for me and my very forgiving greys )




===
okay, I try my best, but now I really give up on spelling...
Is it focussed or focused?
Both spellings are used depending on the variety of English.
According to Wiktionary: The spelling focused is much more common in the US; however, the spelling focussed is sometimes used in the UK and Canada, and is especially common in Australia and New Zealand.

 

[Davesgirl93]

Wow, you’re awesome. Thanks much for your insight. I lol’d at the head tilt - I already do this with my friends black capped conure. He’s mean and bites for no real reason and without warnings d hard! It hurts! He’s usually fine to be picked up but creeps up your arm if you get too comfortable and ends up on your shoulder, and likes to bite your neck and face! If I give him a head-turn glance he backs down most times and softens his stance.