A golden eagle! Also, outdoor safety for my small green eagle?

[Kiwibird]

So several times recently, I have seen a large brown BOP around, but not gotten a real good look at it to make an identification. This morning I was driving in the parking lot (no one was around) and it flew over so I stopped and took a real good look. The bird is ENORMOUS. Much much larger than the little hawks I typically see. I'm assuming it has moved int the area and according to the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, golden eagles are fairly common here.

On one hand, that's super neat to have an eagle neighbor, but I'm now somewhat concerned about Kiwi's safety on our balcony. When he's out there, he is in a welded "one piece" stainless cage (the old-school domed kind). I can add a padlock to the door for extra security. Is that enough protection against such a large bird should it see him and think he might make a tasty snack? Would a BOP even try to attack a caged parrot on a covered balcony? I'd never leave Kiwi outdoors when we aren't home, but I do often leave him out there while I'm inside and just pop my head out the door to check on him every 10/15 minutes or so. If the eagle did try to attack, would a cage offer enough protection for me to get out there and chase it off? I do know for sure all the hard work harness training him will not be useful for being out with us on the balcony with that eagle around! I don't think a little harness is any defense against a giant BOP. I will be scoping out some parks to do out and about harness time in instead Thoughts or opinions on the safety of the cage though?

 

[SailBoat]

With Golden Eagles and Adult Red Tail Hawks, clearly the Eagle is larger by a bunch. That said, a Harness offers zero defense against either. Since both BOP use a drop from above attack, by the time you see the BOP and it hits its target, you have 'maybe' enough time to tug on the harness enough to move the target barely enough for the BOP to miss a hard direct hit. Luck is all you have with either of these two BOP.

The cage will likely keep the Golden Eagle from crashing though the cage bars on the first strike. The cage face the eagle hits will be serious bent-in (non-door face). On a door face, the door hinges will likely fail from deformation of the cage face.

The additional time that eagle has on cage, especially if it hits the door face, the greater the likelihood of it breaking into it as the hinges fail.

Placing a cage on a patio porch and the general safety of the 'Green' Eagle will depend greatly on the design of the porch. The greater the exposure of the porch compared to having only one single face exposed and the balance within the structure of the building, the greater the likelihood of a cage strike.

NOTE: BOP will complete an area search (fly-by) to determine approach angle and speed prior to the strike. It is important to understand that the fly-by and strike can be moments apart to weeks apart. In other words, they have a plan and they will becoming in fast and hard.

The porch rail should be a minimum of 40 to 48" tall to keep the eagle from pulling the cage off the porch!

A long and serious look at the protection that the porch offers or can be up-graded to offer is worth the consideration.

 

[Sunnyclover]

Maybe some plexiglass around the places level to where Kiwi is likely to sit in case the eagle wants to bit kiwi through the bars? Dril a hole into the plexiglass and attach to cage with twist ties perhaps in case you want to remove it easily.

 

[Kiwibird]

Would it be flawed logic to net in the balcony (with something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BNKFGG...olid=1CZYV9UV9WKC3&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) so that if the eagle did hit the netting, it would become entangled or at least frightened enough to turn back around? Kiwi's cage would be located towards the back of the balcony. Our balcony is an odd shape with a big overhang from the roof and little room for a bird that size to turn around anyways. I tried to make a little collage image of the balcony and also my renderings in a CAD program for our plans for this summer (right now it is a total cluster@#$%)!

The cage is similar in style to this, but a good deal bigger and 40-some odd years old so the bars are a bit heavier and wider spacing. The door is much smaller. Not sure an eagle could actually fit through the door as it does not take up the whole front of the cage like modern birdcage doors. The cage is also one solid piece, not constructed of panels like modern birdcages. It does sit on an aluminum outdoor table, but I'm fairly certain I could anchor it to the table:

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm liking the netting idea... maybe with some tags or ribbons tied into the net to make sure that the raptor can see that it's solid and definitely a barrier?

And here's an offbeat idea that some people used in New Mexico to protect outdoor birds...
A fake human (manequin, constructed life-like 'scarecrow', or other similar, placed in a chair in the area. I was told it worked well.

 

[Kiwibird]

We live in a condo with an HOA restricting what we can put outside. Netting seems to be acceptable (other units have had it up on their balconies for as long as we've lived here) but I doubt they'd allow colorful ribbons or anything of that nature.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Well, dang!

Back to the drawing board! I still like the netting... but good luck un-entangling a raptor. Hopefully, the sharp-eyed raptor will see the barrior!

 

[bill_e]

Looked at the predator section of a "raising chickens" message board. They like fake owls and old CD's hanging from string. Apparently the light reflecting off the CD'd keeps the BOP away.

 

[Kiwibird]

Looked at the predator section of a "raising chickens" message board. They like fake owls and old CD's hanging from string. Apparently the light reflecting off the CD'd keeps the BOP away.

Pretty certain our HOA wouldn't allow anything like CDs, but I wonder if some "decorative" hanging something that's reflective may have the same effect? I bet some wind chimes (other people have them) or "lanterns" or something of a "decorative" nature would be allowed! Wonder if those might scare off an eagle? Or even make it too difficult to reach the cage, since this is a massive bird, not exactly made for navigating tight restrictive spaces...

 

[bill_e]

How about this

https://www.amazon.com/Reflective-Owl-Decoy-Bird-Repellent/dp/B06XPBYCQK/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1524352528&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=owl+decoy&psc=1

 

[Kiwibird]

Something like that might work! Though I do wonder if it would scare poor Kiwi as well as predatory birds?

 

[bill_e]

Looking at your diagrams, the eagle would not be able to see the cage while he was soaring. Is there a perching place for the eagle where he could see into the porch? I'd have to see it in person but I'm not sure I'd be all that worried.

You could try some roll up blinds and just hide the cage while Kiwi is out there, pull them up when he's not. Would be useful for the sun as well.


https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=roll+up+blinds

 

[Kiwibird]

The roll down shade Kiwi does NOT like. It blows in the wind and that freaks him out. We do roll it down when it's exceptionally hot out but Kiwi is never outside when the sun hits the balcony directly or in extreme heat.

The balcony is on the 3rd story, so we're a ways up. We are also in the top buildings in a top unit on a steep hill. There are some large trees in our direct line of sight from the balcony. I have not seen the eagle sitting in those trees but that doesn't mean that it doesn't. It has flown directly by our window/balcony at about eye level, within maybe 50-100 feet? A lot of people in this complex seem to let their cats hang out on the balconies during the day. You can see them sitting on the top railing parts. May be why the eagle is hanging around in the first place and flying so low now that I think about it. I bet a BOP that size would eat cats and there is an overabundance here...

 

[SailBoat]

Thank-you, for your excellent CAD layout! Truly helped in understanding the area and placements.

The position you plan to place the 'green' eagle (love that reference ) would require the BOP to fly-by at near center height of the Patio. This greatly reduces the likelihood of them seeing your green eagle. In addition, your setting the cage back and away from the front edge also helps greatly. Take a look at your layout and note just how small the viewing line is into that area.

Flying away with a cage a bit larger and with your green eagle inside is a reality. They can lift 1.5 to 2x their body weight. So, plan to bolt it down.

Creating a series of obstructions of varying size, at varying heights, and locations from the outer line of the rail, all the way into the cage, confuses the BOP's vision of the cage and a clear pathway to it.

CD's are commonly a problem when they are placed along the outer edge, the deeper under the ceiling, the more difficult they are to see, which greatly limits them a problem, and the better they create an obstruction of the view.

IMHO, netting causes a feeling that the area is protected when it is not. A BOP of the size of an eagle at approach speed of 15 MPH will likely not even feel traditional netting. You would have to look for webbing line commonly used in high stretch applications. At that point, you now have a captive federally protected Eagle and any number of laws now apply.

The goal is to use the netting as a means of breaking-up the line of sight with the layering of the hanging and standing obstructions assuring limited viewing.

Walk your association and take notes as to what others are using (getting away with) and begin to construct your use of those ideas.

NOTE: It is important to understand, that because of the placement of the cage, the design of the porch and the roof's overhang. It is very difficult for a BOP to first see and then define a flight path into the cage area. That in and of itself greatly reduces the likelihood of an attack.


FYI: Your comment regarding third floor and cats adds a twist to the likelihood of their fly-by heights dropping from 60 to 250 ft down to 30 to 35 ft.

 

[DiscoDuck]

I'm now somewhat concerned about Kiwi's safety on our balcony.

FWIW.. I only know of how my Macaw reacts to BOP's and how that applies to your bird - thats over my pay grade, however let me be very clear and animated about this.

Rudy is getting older now, he is very well acclimated to our local environment. On numerous occasions,( 3-4 times today) when he screams, people will ask, why is he screaming. Parrots have eyes on the side of their head for a good reason. To see where the predators are..

I only know Rudy. not a day goes by that he doesn't scream at a hawk or eagle. He will turn his head sideways towards the sky. (3or 4times today) It takes me a while to find these soaring raptors. Often they are tiny specks high in the sky, sometimes low down - treetop. The hawks make an unmistakable chirp.. Its interesting that crows sometimes startle him slightly. Geese and ducks overhead nothing.. Am I worried a little.. Rudy has a built in, predator warning bell..

If a parrot is focused on something else, I would imagine, that a hawk or eagle could take a parrot out.. if it is outside the cage and flightless.

I met our Brandywine Zoo director today about Rudy and our involvement with the park.

I told him the story of How Rudy while sitting on a picnic bench screamed, I looked up and saw a large Dark wing raptor coming up the river. Unbelievably, at nearly the same time, I heard a noise crashing through the limbs. GUESS WHAT!!! A freakin snake landed at the base of the tree 30' away.. What are the odds of something happening like that?

The Zoo director chuckled. He said yeah, that was probably one of several immature Bald Eagles who have made the Brandywine River home.

I guess my point is.. Don't worry, I just would never leave my bird outside un-caged unattended. These raptors likely are going to go, for what is easiest. I am sure there are plenty of other tasty morsels more easily available for their perusal without a human in attendance.

The cage is as safe as safe is..

 

[DiscoDuck]

ok doooo do dooo... This is weird.. I DVR "The Zoo" Eagle has landed.. Season 2 Episode 7 If anyone want to see zoo peeps working directly with a Golden Eagle. Its very interesting.. I have a lot of respect for this bird.

I was really surprised at how well they handled this Eagle. I loved the part where they drop the leash through their hand. Thats exactly what I do with Rudys harness when anyone is close, and for his own comfort. It allows a certain measure of safety in the event of the one in a thousand "bad" -------

 

[Kentuckienne]

What a great problem to have, a golden that close!

I wonder if the biggest worry is that the Green Super Chicken might be terrified by seeing the eagle up close and get injured trying to escape inside the cage. From what I've seen, eagles look for easy targets. Ducks on water, they hunt in pairs, the first make the duck dive and the second plucks it up when it bobs back to the surface. Eagles seem to look for targets in the open... birds on the water, animals out in an open space. We had a great horned owl in my old neighborhood that picked up a couple of small cats and made off with them. I am guessing that with Kiwi in a cage, the target is already not clear and in the open. Netting sound like a good idea ... what kind is allowed? Hunters get this camo type netting that has fabric "leaves" sewn all over it, where you can see out fairly well but the critters can't see in. But maybe that's too odd.

Also, if you can pick up an old window screen at a salvage or re-use place, some of those do a good job of obscuring the view from the outside while letting you see out just fine. You could even lean it up against the wall, or put it on some kind of stand, or hang it from hooks, to hide the little green eagle from the big bad one. I hope Kiwi doesn't get a scare but I also hope you get some good pics for us!

 

[Kiwibird]

Sailboat- Yes, he is something like a small green eagle I'm sure if he could fly, he'd be swooping in and stealing ever sandwich my husband makes like an eagle with a fish Netting would be the variety as shown in the link, almost the same size "holes" as a chainlink fence (that's what the other units with mesh have), which I'd imagine a BOP could see from a good distance away was a barrier and hopefully deter it. I really don't think CDs would be allowed, the owls perhaps, but I'm unsure how Kiwi would react being a prey bird and all, but I did get to thinking along those lines of things that catch light- some crystal balls would likely be acceptable. They definitely catch the light. Kiwi is already used to them too, as I've hung them indoors. I also might hang a wind chime and/or some decorative paper lanterns (I had those out there last year). Yes, lots of pet cats around here! I even see them running freely outside (not on a patio) occasionally. Unsure if they escaped or their owners let them be "outdoor cats" all day, but in any case they'll be lucky to find a collar with that eagle having moved in! Plenty of yappy little ankle biter dogs as well, for whom I doubt a leash and collar would provide much protection against a hungry eagle. I bet no one else has taken much note of it in regards to pet safety. Being a bird owner does allow some foresight regarding predators so you can take precautions against them a lot of other pet owners seem not to have!

Discoduck- Kiwi certainly does notice and react to BOPs. Not thrashing trying to get away, more of a hunch low and make the standard amazon alert noise (not sure if all macaws make the same noise but every amazon I've ever encountered makes the same 'predator alert' noise). Rudy, being a GWM is a LOT bigger than Kiwi. Probably close to 3x his size and likely fairly close to the size of an eagle. With that big hookedbill and red colorations (red in nature is generally a warning to predators), I'd imagine him to be a less likely target than a goofy little pigeon sized green parrot

Kentuckienne- It is very cool. I've never seen eagles this close before outside a zoo. This bird has flown right past my window several times now. I'm going to keep my DSLR out in the living room and see if in the next few days I can get a good picture of it We have a 200 some odd acre "nature area" full of trails through dense forest directly behind us, which is likely where the eagle is living. That is one thing I love around here- out in the suburbs, there are huge swaths of protected nature areas amongst all the dense suburban housing and shopping complexes. Our HOA is pretty reasonable, they basically just want the exterior areas of the buildings to look "nice". They really do put a lot of effort into having crews out constantly maintaining the landscaping and communal amenities. I don't think ghillie suit style mesh would be well received Most patios have "decorative things" like wind chimes, wind spinners, string lights etc... I'm guessing they do tell people to take stuff down that isn't aesthetically pleasing as I've never seen anyone using their front or back patio/balcony for visible storage or anything. Before we bought this condo, we had to go to the board of directors to get an "exception" to their dog and cat only policy to even have Kiwi here (apparently a lot of condos do not like exotic animals on the premises), so we try to be extra respectful in regards to having him and keeping him 'unobtrusive' as we don't want issues. I don't want to go to the board to ask for special stuff on our balcony on his behalf since it's not "essential" he be out there in the first place and the fact he could come to any number of local parks with us in his POB or this year, on his harness. So we're trying to be creative in keeping it on par with what others have outside while still being a deterrent and nothing the HOA would just tell us to take back down because it doesn't fit in with their 'exterior asthetics' I will say, I can't wait for the day we have a real house and can hang some CDs or whatever else we want in the backyard if we want to because it's our yard.

 

[DiscoDuck]

Discoduck- Kiwi certainly does notice and react to BOPs. Not thrashing trying to get away, more of a hunch low and make the standard amazon alert noise (not sure if all macaws make the same noise but every amazon I've ever encountered makes the same 'predator alert' noise). Rudy, being a GWM is a LOT bigger than Kiwi. Probably close to 3x his size and likely fairly close to the size of an eagle. With that big hookedbill and red colorations (red in nature is generally a warning to predators), I'd imagine him to be a less likely target than a goofy little pigeon sized green parrot

Those are great points. Rudy for the most part, keeps his eye on the BOP's. when I see them along with him, I bring Rudy in close with corny little things like... "dont worry buddy, I'll protect you"

It was very interesting to watch the Bronx Zoo guys handle a Golden Eagle, in very much similar ways to what I do with Rudy.

However the Goldens are massive. To watch those guys put a BOP on their arm similar to what I do with Rudy is/was amazing to watch.

sorry repeating my self..

Based on what I have learned from you now. If I was in your shoes. I just would NOT EVER leave him unattended outside his cage. Kiwi will signal you, then you can run interference.. Lotsa Good Luck with you HOA ...

 

[Anansi]

I agree with Steven about Kiwi's positioning on the balcony being the biggest defense in this scenario. Though I definitely understand why you are so concerned, as golden eagles are big and freakishly strong! I'm always amazed by the sheer power demonstrated in this video: [ame="https://youtu.be/WY9IJGm_PTI"]GOLDEN EAGLE HUNTS 3 GOATS AND FLIES OFF WITH IT - YouTube[/ame]

But between the angles leading into the patio, the difficulty of pulling off so steep a takeoff with that heavy a cage, and the difficulty with seeing Kiwi in the first place, I think he should be okay. The net and additional reflective decorations sound like great additional safeguards, as well as the possibility of somehow anchoring the cage to the table as you'd mentioned a few posts earlier.