99 million year old bird wings discovered preserved in amber!

[Kiwibird]

99-Million-Year-Old Bird Wings Found Encased in Amber

How amazing is this! I always thought birds were relatively late to the evolutionary party, evolving from flightless but feathery dinosaurs, but this is very intriguing that there were fully evolved 'true' birds living alongside dinosaurs. Makes one wonder if perhaps birds evolved into dinosaurs (and if we need worry about the little dinos in our living room evolving back... T-rex sized Kiwi is not a pretty picture) or if it was some kind of convergent evolution.

 

[Terry57]

That is so interesting! I was shocked to find that they had feathers that far back, I never pictured that. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Newbsi]

Amazing. It is hard to wrap your mind around a hundred or a thousand years...
but, 99 million? I cannot fathom the idea of it. That is so neat!

 

[Kiwibird]

Amazing. It is hard to wrap your mind around a hundred or a thousand years...
but, 99 million? I cannot fathom the idea of it. That is so neat!

It really is hard to comprehend. And the "artist rendering" of what that prehistoric bird may have looked like is just awe inspiring. That bird could be on my back porch today and I wouldn't find anything odd at all about it. Birds, in general, never cease to amaze me! I mean when I think of a prehistoric bird, something along these lines pops into my head:

THIS certainly doesn't! (For those who didn't read the article, this is the rendering of what the adults of the species they found the preserved wings of may have looked like)

I think we have definitely shorted our feathers friends with this kind of perception of their ancestors. They have been around for such a long time. Is it any wonder they are so advanced and possess such amazing abilities?

 

[Aquila]

Some of the theory is that many dinosaurs had early feather type development, think very wispy feathers, without much structure or anything.

There's also another theory that's pretty solid, that many dinosaurs might have achieved short flight at very young ages, but lost it as they matured due to weight and size, wings no longer being able to support their body.

There's one type of bird in particular (Turacos, order of Musophagidae) which are ground dwelling, and distant relatives to Ostriches, which can fly somewhat as fledglings, but lose the ability pretty quickly. They can though, run vertically by flapping, which is what they assume many dinosaurs did. Turacos also have a wing claw as chicks, which can be used for climbing as well. Another interesting thing is that their third digit can be oriented in the front or in the back, having them in the front is more conductive to running!

Most likely, birds and reptiles had a common ancestor that split into specialized groups like lizards and ground dwelling birds, which further specialized over time, resulting in what we have today. Then we have things like bats, who are mammals, that throw everything for a loop.

 

[Kiwibird]

Some of the theory is that many dinosaurs had early feather type development, think very wispy feathers, without much structure or anything.

There's also another theory that's pretty solid, that many dinosaurs might have achieved short flight at very young ages, but lost it as they matured due to weight and size, wings no longer being able to support their body.

There's one type of bird in particular (Turacos, order of Musophagidae) which are ground dwelling, and distant relatives to Ostriches, which can fly somewhat as fledglings, but lose the ability pretty quickly. They can though, run vertically by flapping, which is what they assume many dinosaurs did. Turacos also have a wing claw as chicks, which can be used for climbing as well. Another interesting thing is that their third digit can be oriented in the front or in the back, having them in the front is more conductive to running!

Most likely, birds and reptiles had a common ancestor that split into specialized groups like lizards and ground dwelling birds, which further specialized over time, resulting in what we have today. Then we have things like bats, who are mammals, that throw everything for a loop.

Never knew some flightless birds have the ability for flight as babies and juveniles. I have heard they are finding more evidence of feathery dinosaurs, but this about true birds that so closely resemble modern flying species so far back really shocked me. I thought flying birds evolved from birds similar to emus, ostrich and cassowary (you want to talk about something that looks truly prehistoric), but it seems these guys were around long before birds like archaeopteryx.

I think flying mammals are simply a case of convergent evolution. Unlike birds, bats (the only mammal with true wings) and gliding mammals do not have hollow bones and a very different structure to support flight/gliding. Flying/gliding is a evolutionarily useful ability for an animal to have, therefore very different animals evolved it independently of each other (there are also some reptiles who can glide as well using similar flaps of skin to flying squirrels and the like). Fascinating stuff and new research and theories coming out all the time now!

 

[SailBoat]

This plays heavy when placed against the downfall of the Dinosaurs and the rise of the Mammals timeline, does it not?

Mind Play: If Birds had been near fully developed both with the brain (see early Thread) and body near to current species, at the point when the Dinosaurs exited stage left! It would imply that the fine line between when Dinosaurs were the rulers and when they are gone - far more than just those creatures in the oceans and under the ground made it! The implication is that Birds made it also, yes?

The more 'Good Science' is allowed to seek the truth and only the truth. The more we find that we just do not know anywhere near the full story.

 

[Allee]

April, thank you for posting this thread! The 99 million year old wing encased in amber is fascinating! I find this subject very intriguing.

This is a pretty interesting documentary along the same lines.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g2dXznoURBw

 

[SailBoat]

Allee, great doc and adds nicely!

 

[EdwardH]

Very interesting article with great pics. Very poor science but great hollywood style story telling! No missing link means no evidence for evolution. Heaps of evidence for extinct species but no evidence for one animal giving birth to a different animal eg. dog gives birth to a cat. Until that happens evolution is a no more than a hypothesis - not a theory. Dinosaurs coexisted with people up until the middle ages, there is plenty of evidence those those who have a look. For those who doubt me, look up the stegosaurus carving on Ankor Wat temple, circa 1300AD or the brontosaurus type carvings on an English tomb circa 1250AD. The millions of years are a hoax - unless you can confirm a date with a birth certificate, historical records etc, the dates quoted are simply made up, based on previous made up dates.
Sorry for the science lesson but I hate lies dressed up as science.

 

[Kiwibird]

April, thank you for posting this thread! The 99 million year old wing encased in amber is fascinating! I find this subject very intriguing.

This is a pretty interesting documentary along the same lines.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g2dXznoURBw

Fascinating documentary Allee. I watched it last night. Birds are such amazing, highly advanced creatures. They never cease to amaze me!

 

[Kiwibird]

This plays heavy when placed against the downfall of the Dinosaurs and the rise of the Mammals timeline, does it not?

Mind Play: If Birds had been near fully developed both with the brain (see early Thread) and body near to current species, at the point when the Dinosaurs exited stage left! It would imply that the fine line between when Dinosaurs were the rulers and when they are gone - far more than just those creatures in the oceans and under the ground made it! The implication is that Birds made it also, yes?

The more 'Good Science' is allowed to seek the truth and only the truth. The more we find that we just do not know anywhere near the full story.

There is a lot science dos not yet know and a lot which forever may remain in the realm of theory since the fossil record is by no means complete. Whatever happened, I think being a small mammal, bird or cold blooded reptile who rapidly reproduced (leading to rapid evolutionary changes to adapt to rapidly changing conditions) probably led to these species ultimate survival. Another interesting thing to think about is that many of the land dwelling species who did survive the mass extinction event at the end of the cretaceous were likely able to survive on insects (which can survive just about anything!) or able to survive on the smaller insectivorous critters and had biological methods of saving on energy usage to stay alive (such as crocodilians, who have remained largely unchanged for eons along with testudinidae, both living families of dinosaurs).

It's a very interesting subject indeed! Lots of room for healthy discussion and debate too.

 

[SailBoat]

April, Thank-you, for bring this material to the Forum.

Regarding, the historical confrontation between Creation and Evolution. Sadly and highly likely that both sides are little aware that their beliefs are losing the very thing that both rely on heavily; the written language, as configured and saved in books, manuals and journals. This third belief is successfully eliminating the teaching of writing and therefore the reading of the scripted word. Within two generations, there will be few who can read the 'written' word. At that point, everything will be digital and all that we hold dear can be re-written and changed across all databases. Just like it never existed. If there is something to rail against, I would recommend railing against the literal stealing and potential rewrite of all of our History!

 

[Scott]

April, Thank-you, for bring this material to the Forum.

Regarding, the historical confrontation between Creation and Evolution. Sadly and highly likely that both sides are little aware that their beliefs are losing the very thing that both rely on heavily; the written language, as configured and saved in books, manuals and journals. This third belief is successfully eliminating the teaching of writing and therefore the reading of the scripted word. Within two generations, there will be few who can read the 'written' word. At that point, everything will be digital and all that we hold dear can be re-written and changed across all databases. Just like it never existed. If there is something to rail against, I would recommend railing against the literal stealing and potential rewrite of all of our History!

I am aware of the diminishing importance of cursive writing script as opposed to traditional block letters, but am not clear how the overall written word is endangered. While there is a quest to digitize most everything published on paper, we must still read the written word in inevitable electronic format.

Human communication was massively transformed from oral passage to written record millennia ago, but whatever happens in the next few generations will be relatively insignificant from the stance of how media is translated to the brain.

 

[Dinosrawr]

This is a neat thread, April! I love all of this stuff. When I took ornithology it was exceptionally interesting learning about the theory behind flight and how it developed amongst dinosaurs.

Very interesting article with great pics. Very poor science but great hollywood style story telling! No missing link means no evidence for evolution. Heaps of evidence for extinct species but no evidence for one animal giving birth to a different animal eg. dog gives birth to a cat. Until that happens evolution is a no more than a hypothesis - not a theory. Dinosaurs coexisted with people up until the middle ages, there is plenty of evidence those those who have a look. For those who doubt me, look up the stegosaurus carving on Ankor Wat temple, circa 1300AD or the brontosaurus type carvings on an English tomb circa 1250AD. The millions of years are a hoax - unless you can confirm a date with a birth certificate, historical records etc, the dates quoted are simply made up, based on previous made up dates.
Sorry for the science lesson but I hate lies dressed up as science.

While this is off topic, and I apologize for veering the thread, it bothers me greatly as a biologist when individuals use common definitions to describe a scientific event, when in fact the term is not the equivalent. The every day term "theory", for example, is not a synonym for the scientific definition:

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation."

I think it's important to keep scientific terms as such, and to be careful when throwing those words around.

I will also add for anyone reading this that evolution never once alludes to one species giving birth to a completely different species - in fact that is entirely the opposite of evolution and no biologist or evolutionary scientist would consider that possible. So we can both agree that such a thing ever happening would be bogus [emoji4].

 

[EdwardH]

You are absolutely correct in your summation and so my apologies for simplifying things for those without a biological/scientific background.

My point is that these articles are very interesting however they consistently go straight to a discussion on evolution without any evidence to substantiate it. Evolution is all about a gain of new DNA to change the original species into something a bit different from the original until over eons and umpteen gradual changes, a completely new species has formed/evolved. There is no evidence for this but plenty of evidence for a loss of or corruption of genetic information.

Regarding the use of the term "theory" I'm pretty sure that science text books, US, English, German, Australian etc etc. all call evolution a theory, completely ignoring scientific methods, repeated tests and confirmations through observation and experimentation."

As previously stated I love reading about these discoveries, in fact I find them fascinating, but please lets keep to the facts.

Rant over let's go back to enjoying our feathered pets.

 

[SailBoat]

I am aware of the diminishing importance of cursive writing script as opposed to traditional block letters, but am not clear how the overall written word is endangered. While there is a quest to digitize most everything published on paper, we must still read the written word in inevitable electronic format.

Human communication was massively transformed from oral passage to written record millennia ago, but whatever happens in the next few generations will be relatively insignificant from the stance of how media is translated to the brain.[/QUOTE]

My awareness of the shift from reading /writing of cursive script, on paper, and saved within a hard copy, in the specific case a journal, occurred when our grandchild was unable to read the words of her great, grandfather. Yes, there is an effort in placing historical documents in electronic format. The issue is, the original document is no longer available to the masses, but only a few. Changing history and/or our knowledge base becomes far too easy.

I fully agree with your observation of the significants on how media is translated to the brain. Clearly the next frontier, but already here today! My own office no longer has copies of the foundational books of engineering, they are now bits within the memory media of my tablet. Every six months the tablet files are updated (enhanced), how soon before the enhancement is made directly?

Recently saw a presentation of a design program, which incorporates /merges advanced engineering practices with leading design concepts and leading edge software, using fully interactive screen technology. With the glance of an eye, swipe of the hand, a point of a finger major segments of the 'project' was brought together in minutes. There wasn't a slide rule or note pad anywhere to be seen!

April, sorry for the slide away from your excellent Thread!