The Bad Pionus...

Or is it the "protective" Pionus?...

Here's the story: Most of my bird keeping life, I've either had the birds separate (no problem), or a couple were friends (no problem there either).

This is the first time I've had THIS sort of thing happen. As Raven and baby Griffin are becoming friendly with one another, Raven has started letting pesty little Griffin preen him. Since Griffin doesn't know any better and gets too rough or starts crossing boundaries, and doesn't know when to quit, Raven will give him a warning. Griffin doesn't heed the warning, as if he just doesn't 'get it'. Of course I'm right there in the room to supervise, so when it gets into beak fencing I immediately go over there to break it up before it escalates. Raven is very patient with Griffin's advances for the most part, and I can tell that he is interested in getting to know Griffin also which is why he's being so patient with him.

When Griffin doesn't get the hint when Raven gives a warning to him to tone down or stop, and I come over to to intervene, this is when the problem happens...:52:

THIS IS THE PROBLEM: Although it seems like Raven is telling Griffin "stop it, get away from me now" he DOES NOT welcome my help in getting Griffin off of his cage.
When I go over to "help" Raven by breaking it up and attempting to remove Griffin (before he gets hurt), usually Raven gives me warnings with open beak and nips. I'm thinking "What?! You wanted Griffin to go away, and I'm helping you!" Does he not want me to get involved while he tries to shoo Griffin away?
Today, when attempting to get Griffin out of the way, Raven became aggressive. He ran over to me, and charged my hand to bite several times. My hand came away bleeding. I didn't avoid it because I wasn't expecting him to do that.

Though much of the time they seem to enjoy each other's company as they become friends, the bottom line is that I DO need to intervene when Raven wants Griffin to stop. I obviously don't want to just stand by and watch Griffin get hurt. I think I will go over to them with a stick (instead of my flesh) from now on, though Griffin is not YET stick trained and gets scared. We're going to start training with that today, but that's beside the point.

Any insight as to why Raven gets offended when I try to help him by intervening? Obviously in his bird mind, he isn't seeing it as "help".

Could it be that Raven is so worked up by the time you go to get Griffin that he's biting out of irritation? He's already irritated so he bites what he can.

Griffin is a young whipper snapper with too much energy, lol! I'm not a bird pro, but with our dogs, like you are doing I allow them to interact but intervene. Two pugs and a bulldog, the bulldog is nicknamed Baby Huey because other dogs don't like him. I had to teach him pressure biting because he didn't know his strength (bruised my forearm bad, and my husbands the next day playing) so when it came to him pestering the older pugs, I would allow them to to "scold" him but to a limit. With the bulldog I had to reign him in because he was too rough and had 60 lbs on each of them. I still have to reign him in at times because he's so happy go lucky and doesn't understand the concept of personal space and respecting it.

I think with Griffin he has to learn the boundaries set by Ruppell, but like I assume you are thinking, how far do you allow the interaction before stepping in? I think continuing the process you have is good, one day Griffin will get it. And yes use the stick going forward, save your fingers. Good Luck!!

thekarens said:

Could it be that Raven is so worked up by the time you go to get Griffin that he's biting out of irritation? He's already irritated so he bites what he can.

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I don't know. You'd think if he was THAT worked up he'd KILL Griffin being almost twice his size.

I noticed before too, that when I would approach, Raven would turn his attention away from Griffin for a second and start warning ME to stay away.

Raven maybe thinking that she can handle it but I think for Griffin's safety you should limit contact between them until Griffin is a bit older. Also I would hate to see Raven and your relationship damaged since she seems to be resenting your interference and not seeing it as helpful. How old is Raven again?
I know what you mean about not anticipating a bite so not being able to avoid it.:11:

Hmmm maybe it's like siblings. The annoying younger brother. I don't like him, but no one else is allowed to touch him either.

labell said:

Raven maybe thinking that she can handle it but I think for Griffin's safety you should limit contact between them until Griffin is a bit older. Also I would hate to see Raven and your relationship damaged since she seems to be resenting your interference and not seeing it as helpful. How old is Raven again?
I know what you mean about not anticipating a bite so not being able to avoid it.:11:

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Good point! I never thought that maybe Griffin's age (and babyish behavior) means he's a bit too young? Like expecting a 10 year old kid play with a 3 year old? Lol! They're not yet on the same page mentally. Do you think it's just natural that Griffin will grow out of it and will start to know what boundaries are as he gets older? I hope so!

Raven is 10 1/2 months old, but he's always (since I had him at 4 months) been like an "old man" lol.

thekarens said:

Hmmm maybe it's like siblings. The annoying younger brother. I don't like him, but no one else is allowed to touch him either.

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LOL

Taw5106 said:

bulldog is nicknamed Baby Huey because other dogs don't like him.

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Aw!! That's pretty funny Tracy

There I go with my capacity for names, RAVEN NOT RUPPELL! Geez, sorry about that!