My poor bird is hurting herself.....I'm lost

I have come to this forum in desperation. I am unable to see an avian vet until Tuesday, although we saw one last week, but she didn't offer much help.

I have a 21 year old quaker, who was a feather plucker for many years, but suddenly, as of 2 weeks ago, started mutilating her leg. I found blood in her water bowl, like everywhere, rushed her to the vet......yeah, so I could wait outside for them to see her, since no one inside. She didn't offer much help. I tried to get into the only other avian vet, and he is so busy, and I am not established, so I have no hopes of getting in to see him, so I am sticking with the "meh" one on Tuesday afternoon, in the meantime, I think she may not make it. She is onto the other leg now. It looks awful. Called the vet Friday before they closed when we discovered her other leg. The best she could offer was "google how to make an e collar for her". We bought one off of Amazon and got it in the same day, it was one that is supposed to be worn facing in, but she can't even move in it, so it is facing out....like dogs wear them, and we have her in the bottom of her cage with a soft t shirt. I'm just a mess. She is in a panic, and I hated to resort to this....but she is gonna die if she doesn't stop with the legs! She is on metacam and antibiotics, which we give her every day, and seems to be feeling better.....she had stopped talking and was weak, now she is at least chirping again, but hasn't talked, but she is eating great. We got her some hemp seed, she is eating her pellets and some millet. Even when we hold her, she still won't stop with the mutilating herself. We let her stay on top of her cage, whatever she wants, she still does it. So we just put the collar on her. My husband is so upset he can't even walk away from her.

I know she is old. I know this may be the end for her, and that something physical may be going on with her. The vet said her body was in good shape for her age, besides her lack of feathers on her belly and part of her wings. She was in a cage accident, wrapped a thread around her neck 15 years ago, and became a plucker after that, no matter what we tried. But she eventually slowed down with that and they just never grew back, but she pretty much stopped it, and now this with the legs.

My question is this, when they are in the cone, is it typical for them to have to be in a terrarium or smaller cage where they can hang on a soft blanket like we are doing, because she can't walk up with this collar on. I don't know if it is the right fit, but they were out of the smaller one and many people said the smaller one was too small, so we got the next size up and she can't seem to walk with it on. We will take it off so she can eat in the morning, and see if we can fashion another one that will allow her to move better, but we put this on her for tonight out of desperation. She even does it at night, picks her leg. The vet told us we could put some aloe on her leg, so we did that.

I don't even know if I am making any sense. We are just worried that if we didn't put her in the cone that she would not make it until Tuesday. Maybe someone can suggest a better cone for a quaker that will let her move, but for tonight, I feel like we had to do this, although I don't know if I made the right choice.

Welcome and thanks for joining Parrot Forums, I only wish it were under happier circumstances! Plucking is definitely one of the more vexing traits of parrots. There may be multiple triggers, and at some point some birds normalize the behavior. Unfortunately self-mutilation is not uncommon among species like quakers and many conures, and I can only imagine how absolutely devastating it must be to have to witness your darling bird being driven to do this to herself.

One of our beloved former moderators began a thread with exquisite description of the issues and resources to help mitigate or end plucking:

http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/52217-plucking-search-answers.html

Unfortunately I cannot help you with regards to the cone, but it sounds to me like at this point ANYTHING that you can do to stop the mutilation has to be a good thing. Aloe vera juice would also help because it provides healing properties and it's bitter taste may deter your bird from chewing the treated area, although their tastebuds aren't the same as ours so I'm not sure if it tastes the same to them!

Below is a link that may help you find another avian vet ....

https://www.aav.org/

I certainly do understand that it's more difficult than usual to get in to see a vet, I'm sure you would have told the new one that it's an emergency but they may be full up with their regulars and possibly be short-staffed themselves due to the Covid-19 situation. It may be an idea to keep pestering them as it's an emergency, that way they can see how keen you are and how desperate the situation is.

Hopefully someone will weigh in soon with some more constructive help for you, but in the meantime it sounds to me like you're doing everything you can. I hope you can get some professional help soon!

I'm so sorry you are going through this!

I agree with everything LaManuka mentioned, and I think that having her in a smaller cage with the cone on is a good idea. I truly hope you can get in to your vet on Tuesday and that the collar does it's job until then.

I found this article, it has some recommendations on making sure they are eating, and about monitoring them when they first have the collar. It's from 2007 so some things may have changed but hopefully something here can help.

https://lafeber.com/vet/restraint-collars/

Sending you healing wishes for your baby, you are doing everything possible for her and you both will be in my thoughts.

I agree sounds like you are doing what you can until getting to the vet. If she needs a collar permanently you probably need a different one. It kind of sounds like it’s a plastic cone collar which are very hard and uncomfortable for the birds to wear & hard to manuver around in.

I would get a fabric collar. It’ll need to cover down to the legs. Here is my cockatoo in one. He is a mutilator. If he can easily reach skin he will mutilate it, so I had to get collars that make it hard to reach down to the feet. He can hold food to eat but that’s about it. He just has time out of the collar for short periods to preen, he can go about 2-3 days before the urge to mutilate wins out. He can climb around fine and destroy toys, he did have to learn how to deal with the extra weight for a bit.


This is where I got my original collars. I found someone local to make something similar and way way cheaper after she looked at it though.
Picky Parrot Products II Products

Thank you so much for this website and for sharing about your cute cockatoo!! I came across that website and saw all of those cute collars. I think she will definitely have to wear one permanently. The one we ordered on Amazon was just too big for her and she is able to get out of it, so my husband and I went to Joann Fabrics on got some craft foam. It's thin and lightweight and we made a new one for her that I think may work out, with some tweaking. I will send a picture of her in the one from Amazon that was just too big, and they didn't have the smaller size one and we thought this would work. I will look at the website you sent to see about getting her one of those. She can't climb up her cage with the one we made her, I think if we make it slightly smaller it might work, but any smaller and I think she can get to her foot and do her damage.

So, your cockatoo is able to be in his cage and get around with this type of collar that you have on him? We are thinking that poor Sugar is going to have to have a longer cage and live without perches and walk on the bottom. We are making it comfortable for her, we have some soft t shirts and we bought her a little dome bed that would be easy for her to walk into (she's ignoring it right now because she's mad at me but I think she will like it eventually). Unfortunately, her cage is not very wide, but is tall, and I think we need to get something that is wide and she can walk back and forth in, as I did not foresee her ever being able to climb and perch while having to wear this collar. We take her out every few hours and let her sit on top of her cage and take the collar off and give her food and water, but the minute she can, she tries to go for her legs.

Thanks again for telling me about this website, and for sharing the story about your bird. I don't know why all of a sudden she started doing this. I heard one theory that maybe birds have a vitamin D deficiency, and that could be causing them health problems, and it would make sense. She doesn't go outside. She has some indirect sunlight from the window and that's about it.

Thank you so much, very much appreciated.
https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=7a8a8b69bbed7866e8ba6c7a3b7385db&oe=5EF037F0

Welcome to you and your senior Quaker. Thanks for joining and sharing her story. I have little to add to the superb advice above in a conventional manner.

Just my opinion - might be worth considering extreme measures with an entrenched self-mutilator, particularly if you believe her life is endangered. Haldol (Haloperidol) is an antipsychotic med with avian application. My CAV recommended it post surgically to handle and change dressings for an older untamed macaw. Almost immediately brightened her mood and prevented constant pecking of area with stitches. Just a thought for last-ditch effort with your Quaker.

Scott said:

Welcome to you and your senior Quaker. Thanks for joining and sharing her story. I have little to add to the superb advice above in a conventional manner.

Just my opinion - might be worth considering extreme measures with an entrenched self-mutilator, particularly if you believe her life is endangered. Haldol (Haloperidol) is an antipsychotic med with avian application. My CAV recommended it post surgically to handle and change dressings for an older untamed macaw. Almost immediately brightened her mood and prevented constant pecking of area with stitches. Just a thought for last-ditch effort with your Quaker.

Click to expand...

This is something I have actually been thinking about. I was not prepared to ask the vet that I saw today, because I feel she dabbles in seeing a few birds, but is not truly an avian vet. The one vet who is, is hard to get into, but I'm going to try to set an appointment because that is the only person I would trust with that. I was also wondering if blood work is a bad idea, at her advanced age. The vet today said it would require sedating, and I definitely don't want to do that, and I don't know if the risks outweigh the benefits of blood work, given that she is so old. I feel like she may have some underlying condition though, that caused her to suddenly resort to this behavior. But I do know that prozac is sometimes used in cats, and I was not sure about birds, but I did not realize haldol was also used in birds. I think it actually may be the answer to this, unless she has some other underlying condition that we just don't know yet.

I made two new e collars for her, a few of them much shorter and they are all very light, hoping that we can use one for when we are in the room so we can stop her if she really tries to go for her leg, but maybe can move around a little easier. We are going to try it tonight when my husband gets home. It just breaks my heart to see her sitting at the bottom of her cage in the cone, and I'm thinking, we have to do better. I'm going to also look into the other types of deterrent collars someone else posted about, but I am hopeful that the ones I made today might be able to let her have more freedom to move.

Thanks for the input about medication, I am definitely not opposed to giving it a try, I just want to be confident about the vet I'm using before I do.

Sugarpie said:

Scott said:

Welcome to you and your senior Quaker. Thanks for joining and sharing her story. I have little to add to the superb advice above in a conventional manner.

Just my opinion - might be worth considering extreme measures with an entrenched self-mutilator, particularly if you believe her life is endangered. Haldol (Haloperidol) is an antipsychotic med with avian application. My CAV recommended it post surgically to handle and change dressings for an older untamed macaw. Almost immediately brightened her mood and prevented constant pecking of area with stitches. Just a thought for last-ditch effort with your Quaker.

Click to expand...

This is something I have actually been thinking about. I was not prepared to ask the vet that I saw today, because I feel she dabbles in seeing a few birds, but is not truly an avian vet. The one vet who is, is hard to get into, but I'm going to try to set an appointment because that is the only person I would trust with that. I was also wondering if blood work is a bad idea, at her advanced age. The vet today said it would require sedating, and I definitely don't want to do that, and I don't know if the risks outweigh the benefits of blood work, given that she is so old. I feel like she may have some underlying condition though, that caused her to suddenly resort to this behavior. But I do know that prozac is sometimes used in cats, and I was not sure about birds, but I did not realize haldol was also used in birds. I think it actually may be the answer to this, unless she has some other underlying condition that we just don't know yet.

I made two new e collars for her, a few of them much shorter and they are all very light, hoping that we can use one for when we are in the room so we can stop her if she really tries to go for her leg, but maybe can move around a little easier. We are going to try it tonight when my husband gets home. It just breaks my heart to see her sitting at the bottom of her cage in the cone, and I'm thinking, we have to do better. I'm going to also look into the other types of deterrent collars someone else posted about, but I am hopeful that the ones I made today might be able to let her have more freedom to move.

Thanks for the input about medication, I am definitely not opposed to giving it a try, I just want to be confident about the vet I'm using before I do.

Click to expand...

I would cajole, persuade, do whatever is needed to secure an appointment with the experienced avian vet. Most have "emergency" appointments for bona fide life threatening or compelling issues.

Not all blood draws require sedation. Generally dependent on vet competence, bird temperament, and volume required. Lab results are superb diagnostic tools, as always risk vs reward considerations apply.

My experience with Haldol was approx. 15 years ago, perhaps newer therapies are approved or off-label for parrots. Based on my case study of one, the effects were extraordinary. I truly believe a multifaceted approach including creative collaring will yield best results.

Sugarpie said:

Thank you so much for this website and for sharing about your cute cockatoo!! I came across that website and saw all of those cute collars. I think she will definitely have to wear one permanently. The one we ordered on Amazon was just too big for her and she is able to get out of it, so my husband and I went to Joann Fabrics on got some craft foam. It's thin and lightweight and we made a new one for her that I think may work out, with some tweaking. I will send a picture of her in the one from Amazon that was just too big, and they didn't have the smaller size one and we thought this would work. I will look at the website you sent to see about getting her one of those. She can't climb up her cage with the one we made her, I think if we make it slightly smaller it might work, but any smaller and I think she can get to her foot and do her damage.

So, your cockatoo is able to be in his cage and get around with this type of collar that you have on him? We are thinking that poor Sugar is going to have to have a longer cage and live without perches and walk on the bottom. We are making it comfortable for her, we have some soft t shirts and we bought her a little dome bed that would be easy for her to walk into (she's ignoring it right now because she's mad at me but I think she will like it eventually). Unfortunately, her cage is not very wide, but is tall, and I think we need to get something that is wide and she can walk back and forth in, as I did not foresee her ever being able to climb and perch while having to wear this collar. We take her out every few hours and let her sit on top of her cage and take the collar off and give her food and water, but the minute she can, she tries to go for her legs.

Thanks again for telling me about this website, and for sharing the story about your bird. I don't know why all of a sudden she started doing this. I heard one theory that maybe birds have a vitamin D deficiency, and that could be causing them health problems, and it would make sense. She doesn't go outside. She has some indirect sunlight from the window and that's about it.

Thank you so much, very much appreciated.
https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=7a8a8b69bbed7866e8ba6c7a3b7385db&oe=5EF037F0

Click to expand...

My guy is an abused rescue and bounced around 10+ homes, so his is an ingrained habit.

What area are you in? Maybe someone has an experienced bird vet willing to take in a new client right now. The best avian vet I ever had wasn’t avian certified in the US. She was certified in Ireland I believe it was and didn’t want to deal with the bother of certifying here. She dealt with all the rescue cases and some of those were both weird and difficult haha. I would say skin swab cultures for the area she’s attacking and blood work would definitely be a min requirement. Unless she gets seriously stressed by getting blood taken. I have one that goes into shock/panic attack from being restrained is the best way to describe it, so I don’t do any basic vet care with him. I take stool samples for them to run and bring it in (took forever for a vet that would allow that too).

Is anyone spraying anything outside in your area? Could have started with a chemical exposure that’s bothering him. Or did he eat metal from a toy by any chance? Or a new toy that could have some paint, or something along those lines, that’s not safe?

Folger can both climb and perch. He can even run away when out with hops and flapping of the wings to glide with it on. This is his setup. It took him a minute to figure out how to go about it with a collar. But his first response is to flee no matter the obstacles. So he worked it out fast so he could get to his safe spot.


Oh and I have two old collars that I dont use. They aren’t really that usable right now but you can take them apart to get an idea of how others are putting them together and sizing for them. One is smaller (not Quaker small I don’t think) and the other was a smaller Folger collar that he destroyed the snaps on. He had that size before he started on his legs and I had to go bigger. You can PM if you want them!

I also forgot tube collars for the neck. You can make your own pretty easily too. Just some tube foam like you would use to wrap a pipe & some medical tape & vet wrap to keep it on. It restricts neck movement & keeps the wings free and is very light weight. But it keeps them from reaching down to lower body areas. I’ve used them at the shelter for a bird with stitches before.

Wow, I have not been on here for a while and just read the new responses, thank you all who offered advice. I am in Orlando, Florida, and the vet I have been to is nice, but they are a dog and cat place that says they do birds, but I don't feel too confident that this vet sees a lot of birds.

So I had made a lightweight e collar for Sugar, and she seemed to be working well, I made it out of craft foam and industrial strength velcro. Well, tonight, in the blink of an eye she managed to get to her healing and scabbed up leg and pull off the scab and it looked like a crime scene, blood everywhere. I made a new collar, I think the other one was working but it had kind of worn down and now I know that I am going to have to keep making a new one every few weeks. She can move around in it, eat, and we take her out as soon as we get home from work and watch her like a hawk without the collar on so she can move around. I do not feel so confident about my vet, and she was discouraging me from taking blood from her, so I really am hoping to find someone else. I don't want her to take blood from her when I feel like she is not confident in doing it. The other vet in town is an exotic who sees birds, but I'm not so sure how he is with this part, of drawing blood and lab work. If I can find one that is truly an avian bird, I will do whatever I need to do for her and consider medication for her also.

She was doing so great, and then this set back tonight. She had built up this big scab and the ointment cream we had been putting on her, from the vet, had sort of restricted air flow, even though we tried to rinse it off after a while, as instructed, but it build up this big scab and then she picked it off in a second and it just bled so badly. We had to put her in the sink and rinse her off, she had blood on her tail, her feet, it looked awful. She calmed down and did manage to eat, and when we put her back in her cage she was playing with one of her toys, so idk, I really have no idea what is going to happen with this crazy old bird, but we are trying, and she was doing so well. The leg actually looks better with the scab picked off, like maybe it can heal up now, with some air flow to it? I don't know. We are spending as much time with her as we can.

Thanks again for all of the advice and help with my crazy little quaker.

riddick07 said:

Sugarpie said:

Thank you so much for this website and for sharing about your cute cockatoo!! I came across that website and saw all of those cute collars. I think she will definitely have to wear one permanently. The one we ordered on Amazon was just too big for her and she is able to get out of it, so my husband and I went to Joann Fabrics on got some craft foam. It's thin and lightweight and we made a new one for her that I think may work out, with some tweaking. I will send a picture of her in the one from Amazon that was just too big, and they didn't have the smaller size one and we thought this would work. I will look at the website you sent to see about getting her one of those. She can't climb up her cage with the one we made her, I think if we make it slightly smaller it might work, but any smaller and I think she can get to her foot and do her damage.

So, your cockatoo is able to be in his cage and get around with this type of collar that you have on him? We are thinking that poor Sugar is going to have to have a longer cage and live without perches and walk on the bottom. We are making it comfortable for her, we have some soft t shirts and we bought her a little dome bed that would be easy for her to walk into (she's ignoring it right now because she's mad at me but I think she will like it eventually). Unfortunately, her cage is not very wide, but is tall, and I think we need to get something that is wide and she can walk back and forth in, as I did not foresee her ever being able to climb and perch while having to wear this collar. We take her out every few hours and let her sit on top of her cage and take the collar off and give her food and water, but the minute she can, she tries to go for her legs.

Thanks again for telling me about this website, and for sharing the story about your bird. I don't know why all of a sudden she started doing this. I heard one theory that maybe birds have a vitamin D deficiency, and that could be causing them health problems, and it would make sense. She doesn't go outside. She has some indirect sunlight from the window and that's about it.

Thank you so much, very much appreciated.
https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=7a8a8b69bbed7866e8ba6c7a3b7385db&oe=5EF037F0

Click to expand...

My guy is an abused rescue and bounced around 10+ homes, so his is an ingrained habit.

What area are you in? Maybe someone has an experienced bird vet willing to take in a new client right now. The best avian vet I ever had wasn’t avian certified in the US. She was certified in Ireland I believe it was and didn’t want to deal with the bother of certifying here. She dealt with all the rescue cases and some of those were both weird and difficult haha. I would say skin swab cultures for the area she’s attacking and blood work would definitely be a min requirement. Unless she gets seriously stressed by getting blood taken. I have one that goes into shock/panic attack from being restrained is the best way to describe it, so I don’t do any basic vet care with him. I take stool samples for them to run and bring it in (took forever for a vet that would allow that too).

Is anyone spraying anything outside in your area? Could have started with a chemical exposure that’s bothering him. Or did he eat metal from a toy by any chance? Or a new toy that could have some paint, or something along those lines, that’s not safe?

Folger can both climb and perch. He can even run away when out with hops and flapping of the wings to glide with it on. This is his setup. It took him a minute to figure out how to go about it with a collar. But his first response is to flee no matter the obstacles. So he worked it out fast so he could get to his safe spot.

Oh and I have two old collars that I dont use. They aren’t really that usable right now but you can take them apart to get an idea of how others are putting them together and sizing for them. One is smaller (not Quaker small I don’t think) and the other was a smaller Folger collar that he destroyed the snaps on. He had that size before he started on his legs and I had to go bigger. You can PM if you want them!

Click to expand...

I think we found the website that has collars like these and my husband is ordering one for a bird her size, but thank you for your kind offer,. I think these would probably be too big for her. Hopefully this kind will work better than the lightweight ones I've been making for her. They seemed to be working well until tonight and she was able to pick off a scab and start the leg bleeding again. I made a new lightweight collar, this one seemed to have been worn down a bit and she had been tugging at it and I think was able to maneuver herself to get to her leg.

Thank you for your advice, it is truly appreciated.

I cannot read this whole thread at the moment (my head is POUNDING)
But in case it wasn't mentioned, hormones can play a huge part in plucking.
Remove any shadowy spaces, huts or boxes in the cage and prevent access to shadowy spaces outside the cage.
Do not cuddle or stroke-- pet only on the head and neck.

Make sure your bird is getting at least 10 hours of solid/quiet sleep nightly and never cover the cage during the day (except in the event of medical necessity or some other strange reason---they need that light cycle and a partly covered or fully covered cage to an awake bird is like a giant nest.

I will try to read more tomorrow. Sorry if this has been said.

Also--obviously ruling out health issues (as you are doing) is key, as birds in pain will sometimes pluck as well.

Do not use any personal care products on your skin (perfumes, lotions etc that she could contact) and make sure you aren't cleaning the home with chemicals or irritants (even things like candles are terrible for birds).

Sugarpie said:

Wow, I have not been on here for a while and just read the new responses, thank you all who offered advice. I am in Orlando, Florida, and the vet I have been to is nice, but they are a dog and cat place that says they do birds, but I don't feel too confident that this vet sees a lot of birds.

So I had made a lightweight e collar for Sugar, and she seemed to be working well, I made it out of craft foam and industrial strength velcro. Well, tonight, in the blink of an eye she managed to get to her healing and scabbed up leg and pull off the scab and it looked like a crime scene, blood everywhere. I made a new collar, I think the other one was working but it had kind of worn down and now I know that I am going to have to keep making a new one every few weeks. She can move around in it, eat, and we take her out as soon as we get home from work and watch her like a hawk without the collar on so she can move around. I do not feel so confident about my vet, and she was discouraging me from taking blood from her, so I really am hoping to find someone else. I don't want her to take blood from her when I feel like she is not confident in doing it. The other vet in town is an exotic who sees birds, but I'm not so sure how he is with this part, of drawing blood and lab work. If I can find one that is truly an avian bird, I will do whatever I need to do for her and consider medication for her also.

She was doing so great, and then this set back tonight. She had built up this big scab and the ointment cream we had been putting on her, from the vet, had sort of restricted air flow, even though we tried to rinse it off after a while, as instructed, but it build up this big scab and then she picked it off in a second and it just bled so badly. We had to put her in the sink and rinse her off, she had blood on her tail, her feet, it looked awful. She calmed down and did manage to eat, and when we put her back in her cage she was playing with one of her toys, so idk, I really have no idea what is going to happen with this crazy old bird, but we are trying, and she was doing so well. The leg actually looks better with the scab picked off, like maybe it can heal up now, with some air flow to it? I don't know. We are spending as much time with her as we can.

Thanks again for all of the advice and help with my crazy little quaker.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the update, sorry to hear of Sugar's setback. Your love and dedication will be most effective coupled with expert medical advice.

I located three certified avian vets, however they seem closer to the Tampa area. You can use this search engine by selecting ABVP (Avian) in degree drop-down menu and completing address or simply Orlando FL.

https://www.aav.org/members/Default.asp?id=22941390
https://www.aav.org/members/Default.asp?id=22940351
https://www.aav.org/members/Default.asp?id=22942285

I think you're doing wonderfully well with dear little Sugar! Hopefully you can find a vet in whom you can have more confidence and the improvements continue. I'm so happy for you

Sugarpie, check the PM that i sent to you.