Hi... I was wondering if someone could help me with this. I have been looking at cages for my Sun Conure and I've been looking at the A & E cages. Last night I came across a site that warns that this brand of cage could have problems with zinc and lead in the paint. The site touts that the brand of cages they sell (HQ) are free and clear of any of these problems. Are there people in this forum that know what cages are safe? A very close friend of mine just purchased an A&E cage and now she's worried. I'm open to advice and suggestions. Thanks
Cage Toxicology ??
- Thread starter jmoon
- Start date
I don't know much about these cages but you can chip of some of the paint and bring it to a vet to have them test it.
JMARKS
New member
- Oct 18, 2007
- 4
- 0
Hi - I am new to this forum too. Actually, it is KINGS that sold the HQ cages (their ecomony line) - not A&E. At least one of the HQ cages have come back positive in the 2000 ppm level for lead. I have an HQ cage and it is positive. The color is tan. It is this line of cages: http://www.kingscages.com/shop/index.php?cat_id=29&catname='04.Cages%20Economy'
Last edited:
Wow lucky this came up on google. Sorry but I never saw any relationship between HQ and Kings. No mention of HQ on Kings website either. Which cage is it? I have one too.
Who tested your cage and what is HQ going to do about it? What was the ppm on the cage you tested? Or did you report it to Kings?
Thanks
Yes but your link to me was to the entire page not the cage. My cage is this one a beigy white:
http://www.kingscages.com/shop/view_product.php?product=ELC-3222.
The way you wrote it didnt sound like the one with the 2000 was yours sorry to misunderstand. So your cage tested 2000 ppm?
JMARKS
New member
- Oct 18, 2007
- 4
- 0
Beigy white is probably the tan color the call sandstone. That is the same color as mine. You should get it tested. Does it have HQ on the tray? It is right on the front of the tray. All you have to do is take a paint sampling or send a piece of the cage which is what I did.
This is my cage http://www.kingscages.com/shop/view_product.php?product=ELT-3223
This is my cage http://www.kingscages.com/shop/view_product.php?product=ELT-3223
Yes probably. Thanks I'll look on the cage tray first thing in the morning.
Where did you send yours? Did you scrape it off the bottom of the tray?
Yours came back at 2000??
I'm really surprised because the Kings cage is much sturdier and better quality than the HQ and A&E I've seen. Those two are identical but this one I have is MUCH better quality. Guess you dont know till you do testing so I better hurry. Thanks
Last edited:
JMARKS
New member
- Oct 18, 2007
- 4
- 0
??? Kings sells HQ. That is what is on the front of the cage I have from them. Does you cage have seed catchers? If it does, tell me how the seed catchers go on and Ill tell you if its the same as mine.
I know it is late, but are you reading my posts? I sent a piece of the cage. I didnt scrape the paint. I have the lab report at my office. Can check that mon.
I know it is late, but are you reading my posts? I sent a piece of the cage. I didnt scrape the paint. I have the lab report at my office. Can check that mon.
I believe you but don't understand how they sell HQ a totally different company and they dont have a single reference to HQ on their site. Boy are they going to be surprised to hear about your test.
Mine has no seed catcher it comes with plexi slide in pieces.
Sorry to bother you I just thought you'd remember what lab you mailed it to.
I guess I got confused because you said : "I already posted the link and ppm below" and the only ppm you wrote about was 2000. See I am reading carefully
Yeah ha ha it's late. I see you said you mailed a piece but my eye fixed on the scraping part, wondering where I was going to scrape. I dont want to cut a piece of my cage apart if I dont have to.
Thanks for your help.
Good Morning. First thing this am I looked at my Kings cage tray. It says Kings Cage LC and East Brunswick NJ. A silver label in the center.
Did you get your cage directly from Kings? I was wondering if maybe you got it on eBay or from an individual and perhaps the tray got switched.
Regardless, I'll look for your post on Monday so I can send my paint test to the same lab you did. Thanks!
Did you get your cage directly from Kings? I was wondering if maybe you got it on eBay or from an individual and perhaps the tray got switched.
Regardless, I'll look for your post on Monday so I can send my paint test to the same lab you did. Thanks!
Crossposted with permission and by request of the author:
http://www.happybirdy.com/lead_in_paint_1.htm
Facts About Lead In Cage Paint - by Larry Houston
Background Information
There is a bunch of information running about the Internet and some of it is not exactly correct. I am here to clear up the air of confusion.
My name is Larry Houston. I post as Larry, Baby and Me.
I am just a regular guy that tried to find out if my Umbie was safe and free from any toxins in her cage.
On the heels of the Mattel toy recalls and then the Broadbent Sanctuary in Kentucky story - I sent samples of my cage to LADDL for testing. The results came back as 3,200 parts per million for lead.
So - for the past three months I have been working nonstop to research this lead issue and in turn provide others with the most accurate information.
I am not going to go into any details here about the horrible effects that heavy metals can do to a bird. If any of you do not know - then there is plenty of information on the net that you can Google. --- it ain't pretty.
I see posts on a variety of boards discussing this issue. I see some say...
"I have brand X cage - I have "heard" they are okay - so I don't have to worry."
Other posts say...
"My cage is brand Y - and I bought it a long time ago - so I don't have to worry."
"My bird has been in a China made cage for three years and it hasn't had any problems."
You had better add "YET" to the above comment. LEAD CUMULATES IN THE SYSTEM.
Don't fool yourself... If it was made in China - hey - and that is Asia folks....... GET IT TESTED!!!
Can I vouch for the European cages??? I can tell what I do know... Europe has higher quality and safety standards that we do in the good ol' US of A. And - No I haven't had any test results for any European cages. I would like to know what they test as.
Enough of the background information... Here is what you must do:
Send paint scrapings off to the lab that I list here. DO NOT send anything other that paint scrapings. DO NOT send off a part (metal bar or such). ONLY follow the directions that I lay out here.
In your letter to the lab - tell them that the samples are from a bird cage and you want the DIGESTION method performed.
DO NOT send your samples to any other lab. I have some personal and factual background information on that if you care to email me for it.
How much lead is too much in the paint of a bird cage?
Any amount of lead is too much. That amount is not open for debate. Lead is a heavy metal and if ingested can and often times will kill a bird. If the ingested lead does not kill the bird - it will cause serious health problems, including neurological damage and a shortened life.
The maximum level allowed at which the US federal government has set in 1977 for ALL objects inside the home is 600 parts per million. The US government also set the max level for Hazardous Material (HAZ-MAT) at 5,000 ppm. Remember - these are maximum levels for items in the home for "human" contact.
A bird is NOT a human. A bird's system cannot tolerate ANY lead. So - standards within the avian community are set by the consumer as - ZERO toxins in cage paint.
Importers, distributors, and retailers advertise ALL of their cages to be "Toxic Free".
Recent lab results for lead in cage paint that I have been involved with are:
<500ppm
920ppm
1,400ppm
3,200ppm
3,700ppm
6,600ppm
9,600ppm
14,700ppm
19,300ppm
54,300ppm
ALL but one of these results exceeds the 600ppm Federal level. And the one is close to that level.
Other cages that were tested housed Tiels and other small birds came back with trace amounts of lead but high in Zinc.
In other words folks ------ there was not one cage that was tested that the results were TOXIC FREE.
Unfortunately - what I have found with most bird owners is apathy. It seems like most folks do not consider this a problem. Very few of the hundreds of bird owners that I have contacted have sent samples off to the lab for testing.
Oh by the way ----- Home Lead Test Kits - don't work. Bottom line - they are a sham and a scam. If you want details on this - please email me.
How To Collect Cage Paint Samples
1. Take a white sheet of “clean” computer paper to collect the sample.
2. Hold the paper under what you will be scraping.
3. Scrape the paint with a single edged razor blade or stainless steel knife (scrape – do not chip).
4. Scrape a sample about the size of a quarter - the size of a half dollar is best.
5. Fold the sample in the paper.
6. Lightly tape the paper shut.
7. Place the paper in a zip-lock plastic baggie.
8. Seal the baggie and place it in a regular envelope for mailing.
Notes:
If submitting samples from more than one cage - use separate labeled baggies for each paint sample.
a) To avoid confusing which sample belongs to which cage, repeat the above process for “each” cage sample.
b) Clearly mark on the baggie (not on the paper with the sample) the cage to which the sample belongs.
c) Clearly state in the letter to the lab that you want them to indicate on the results report, the cage identification that you wrote on each baggie.
A Sample Letter To The Lab
Today’s Date
Your Full Name
Your Address
City, State, Zip
Your Telephone Number
Your Fax – If appropriate
Louisiana Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory
PO Box 25070
Baton Rouge, LA 70894
255-578-9784
Included is a paint sample of a bird cage that I would like you to test for Lead and Zinc using the digestion method.
Also included is a check for $50.00 made out to Louisiana Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory to cover the fees.
Please call me with the test results at the above telephone number, and then mail me the test results at the above address.
Thank you,
Your Full Name
Legal Recourse
Many of you have asked either through posts or by email to me... "My cage tested toxic (even a little lead is toxic to a bird) - I want my money back but where I bought it from... they are giving me the run-around."
My product liability attorneys (yes folks - that is plural) stated --- ALL in the supply chain are EQUALLY responsible... importer, distributor, brick and mortar retailer, and Internet retailer. And please understand - the Internet retailer cannot claim that they never handled the product because it was dropped shipped to you by the importer/distributor. Tell them - it is the United States Federal law that all in the supply chain are EQUALLY responsible. You do deserve your money back from where you bought your cage.
Additionally... Nothing I have said here is untrue or slanderous. I have not mentioned any importer, distributor, retailer, or Internet retailer in this message. So - for anyone that may wish to take legal action against me for telling the truth since I have not implicated any one or any company by name... you can contact my team of product liability attorneys. I will be happy to give you the firm's address. So I will tell you what my attorneys have told me to pass on to you... If you contact me in any negative way - either by email, posts, telephone, or letter... I will consider that harassment and a violation of my constitutional right to FREE SPEECH and you will be handled accordingly. I did not get to be the age I am by being stupid.
In Conclusion
In this time in the history of keeping companion parrots - we have a disaster on our hands. If you think this issue is important - then please do not delay - get your cage tested.
If you think this issue is really important - pass this on to as many people as you can. Do not be shy - your bird's health and your friend's bird's health is at stake.
If you run up into ones - either by posting or by email - that try to throw a curve at you (monkey wrench into the mix) then consider them as suspect and they most likely have other motives other than keeping our birds safe. I do know what I am talking about on this.
Do not delay - do what is right.
Larry, Baby and Me
Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever,
for what you have tamed.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
http://www.happybirdy.com/lead_in_paint_1.htm
Facts About Lead In Cage Paint - by Larry Houston
Background Information
There is a bunch of information running about the Internet and some of it is not exactly correct. I am here to clear up the air of confusion.
My name is Larry Houston. I post as Larry, Baby and Me.
I am just a regular guy that tried to find out if my Umbie was safe and free from any toxins in her cage.
On the heels of the Mattel toy recalls and then the Broadbent Sanctuary in Kentucky story - I sent samples of my cage to LADDL for testing. The results came back as 3,200 parts per million for lead.
So - for the past three months I have been working nonstop to research this lead issue and in turn provide others with the most accurate information.
I am not going to go into any details here about the horrible effects that heavy metals can do to a bird. If any of you do not know - then there is plenty of information on the net that you can Google. --- it ain't pretty.
I see posts on a variety of boards discussing this issue. I see some say...
"I have brand X cage - I have "heard" they are okay - so I don't have to worry."
Other posts say...
"My cage is brand Y - and I bought it a long time ago - so I don't have to worry."
"My bird has been in a China made cage for three years and it hasn't had any problems."
You had better add "YET" to the above comment. LEAD CUMULATES IN THE SYSTEM.
Don't fool yourself... If it was made in China - hey - and that is Asia folks....... GET IT TESTED!!!
Can I vouch for the European cages??? I can tell what I do know... Europe has higher quality and safety standards that we do in the good ol' US of A. And - No I haven't had any test results for any European cages. I would like to know what they test as.
Enough of the background information... Here is what you must do:
Send paint scrapings off to the lab that I list here. DO NOT send anything other that paint scrapings. DO NOT send off a part (metal bar or such). ONLY follow the directions that I lay out here.
In your letter to the lab - tell them that the samples are from a bird cage and you want the DIGESTION method performed.
DO NOT send your samples to any other lab. I have some personal and factual background information on that if you care to email me for it.
How much lead is too much in the paint of a bird cage?
Any amount of lead is too much. That amount is not open for debate. Lead is a heavy metal and if ingested can and often times will kill a bird. If the ingested lead does not kill the bird - it will cause serious health problems, including neurological damage and a shortened life.
The maximum level allowed at which the US federal government has set in 1977 for ALL objects inside the home is 600 parts per million. The US government also set the max level for Hazardous Material (HAZ-MAT) at 5,000 ppm. Remember - these are maximum levels for items in the home for "human" contact.
A bird is NOT a human. A bird's system cannot tolerate ANY lead. So - standards within the avian community are set by the consumer as - ZERO toxins in cage paint.
Importers, distributors, and retailers advertise ALL of their cages to be "Toxic Free".
Recent lab results for lead in cage paint that I have been involved with are:
<500ppm
920ppm
1,400ppm
3,200ppm
3,700ppm
6,600ppm
9,600ppm
14,700ppm
19,300ppm
54,300ppm
ALL but one of these results exceeds the 600ppm Federal level. And the one is close to that level.
Other cages that were tested housed Tiels and other small birds came back with trace amounts of lead but high in Zinc.
In other words folks ------ there was not one cage that was tested that the results were TOXIC FREE.
Unfortunately - what I have found with most bird owners is apathy. It seems like most folks do not consider this a problem. Very few of the hundreds of bird owners that I have contacted have sent samples off to the lab for testing.
Oh by the way ----- Home Lead Test Kits - don't work. Bottom line - they are a sham and a scam. If you want details on this - please email me.
How To Collect Cage Paint Samples
1. Take a white sheet of “clean” computer paper to collect the sample.
2. Hold the paper under what you will be scraping.
3. Scrape the paint with a single edged razor blade or stainless steel knife (scrape – do not chip).
4. Scrape a sample about the size of a quarter - the size of a half dollar is best.
5. Fold the sample in the paper.
6. Lightly tape the paper shut.
7. Place the paper in a zip-lock plastic baggie.
8. Seal the baggie and place it in a regular envelope for mailing.
Notes:
If submitting samples from more than one cage - use separate labeled baggies for each paint sample.
a) To avoid confusing which sample belongs to which cage, repeat the above process for “each” cage sample.
b) Clearly mark on the baggie (not on the paper with the sample) the cage to which the sample belongs.
c) Clearly state in the letter to the lab that you want them to indicate on the results report, the cage identification that you wrote on each baggie.
A Sample Letter To The Lab
Today’s Date
Your Full Name
Your Address
City, State, Zip
Your Telephone Number
Your Fax – If appropriate
Louisiana Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory
PO Box 25070
Baton Rouge, LA 70894
255-578-9784
Included is a paint sample of a bird cage that I would like you to test for Lead and Zinc using the digestion method.
Also included is a check for $50.00 made out to Louisiana Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory to cover the fees.
Please call me with the test results at the above telephone number, and then mail me the test results at the above address.
Thank you,
Your Full Name
Legal Recourse
Many of you have asked either through posts or by email to me... "My cage tested toxic (even a little lead is toxic to a bird) - I want my money back but where I bought it from... they are giving me the run-around."
My product liability attorneys (yes folks - that is plural) stated --- ALL in the supply chain are EQUALLY responsible... importer, distributor, brick and mortar retailer, and Internet retailer. And please understand - the Internet retailer cannot claim that they never handled the product because it was dropped shipped to you by the importer/distributor. Tell them - it is the United States Federal law that all in the supply chain are EQUALLY responsible. You do deserve your money back from where you bought your cage.
Additionally... Nothing I have said here is untrue or slanderous. I have not mentioned any importer, distributor, retailer, or Internet retailer in this message. So - for anyone that may wish to take legal action against me for telling the truth since I have not implicated any one or any company by name... you can contact my team of product liability attorneys. I will be happy to give you the firm's address. So I will tell you what my attorneys have told me to pass on to you... If you contact me in any negative way - either by email, posts, telephone, or letter... I will consider that harassment and a violation of my constitutional right to FREE SPEECH and you will be handled accordingly. I did not get to be the age I am by being stupid.
In Conclusion
In this time in the history of keeping companion parrots - we have a disaster on our hands. If you think this issue is important - then please do not delay - get your cage tested.
If you think this issue is really important - pass this on to as many people as you can. Do not be shy - your bird's health and your friend's bird's health is at stake.
If you run up into ones - either by posting or by email - that try to throw a curve at you (monkey wrench into the mix) then consider them as suspect and they most likely have other motives other than keeping our birds safe. I do know what I am talking about on this.
Do not delay - do what is right.
Larry, Baby and Me
Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever,
for what you have tamed.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
So what cage is safe? I need one for outside and one for my den. It is for an amazon so I want it to be good sized. The bigger the better as I want her to have more room to play. I can not spend thousands on a cage but want a safe one. And how do you know the difference. I saw some good deals on HQ cages but I hear then are not safe but then that company sells the ones in the very expensive bird catalogs too so does that mean those are not safe either.
Hi,
Cage design is shown to be an important factor in results obtained in acute toxicity tests with respiratory depressant drugs in rats, as illustrated by data obtained with morphine, anileridine, and sodium pentobarbital. It was observed that during the stage of drug effect when an animal was severely depressed, the nose would sometimes be pressed against a sheet metal surface and the animal would succumb, apparently in respiratory failure. More than a tenfold increase in LD50 could be obtained by placing the animals after injection in cages made entirely of wire mesh, compared to animals in sheet metal cages. Cages partly of wire mesh, but with sheet metal reinforcements so that solid corners were provided, gave intermediate mortality figures. In sheet metal cages, deaths could be prevented either by shielding with wire mesh, or by moving the animal whenever the nose was pressed against a solid metal corner.
Thanks
David
web design company
Cage design is shown to be an important factor in results obtained in acute toxicity tests with respiratory depressant drugs in rats, as illustrated by data obtained with morphine, anileridine, and sodium pentobarbital. It was observed that during the stage of drug effect when an animal was severely depressed, the nose would sometimes be pressed against a sheet metal surface and the animal would succumb, apparently in respiratory failure. More than a tenfold increase in LD50 could be obtained by placing the animals after injection in cages made entirely of wire mesh, compared to animals in sheet metal cages. Cages partly of wire mesh, but with sheet metal reinforcements so that solid corners were provided, gave intermediate mortality figures. In sheet metal cages, deaths could be prevented either by shielding with wire mesh, or by moving the animal whenever the nose was pressed against a solid metal corner.
Thanks
David
web design company
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