Sudden change to aggressive Gray

Let me give you a history of my Gray Leo. Leo was given to me back in the winter of 2008 while I was visiting my parents in Florida. At the time I was house hunting, and my apt would not allow birds. My mother has a gray, and a senegal. So taking care of him was not going to be anything new for her. She agreed to watch him until I was able to buy a house. All we know about Leo was that he was given to a family who worked at a boys ranch. She was told that the owners elderly husband could no longer help her with 2 birds, so Leo was given to this person. This person had him for about 4 months before they decided they were moving, and where they were moving, they could not take him with them. So, she offered him to us, and we took him. My mother had him from Feb till Nov.

I bought my house October 31st. My mother had been searching for a place to board her birds in the future, for any trips she may want to take. She found a man who supposedly had a great big aviary and told her all sorts of lies about his place. He was a breeder who supposedly boarded birds. Mom asked me to talk to him, as he had nearly convinced her that being single and working, a gray would not be good for me. I talked to him a couple times and it became clear that he wanted to trade me Leo for a pair of other birds more suitable for single folks.. like sun conures. I had no intention of giving Leo to him, and told him so.

Well, my mother's gray needed wing trimming, so she brought her gray and Leo out there because she wanted to see the place. How it ended up, I still really don't understand, but she called me saying that she had left Leo there, to see how he handled being around other birds, but that I prob wouldn't want him to stay there if I traded him.. I promptly told her to go back and get him. She called the man and told him she was coming back to get Leo, as I (being the rightful owner) did not want him to be left there. Leo had been there less than 30 min, and when she got there, the man told her that she gave Leo to him and to get off his property. It became clear that he only wanted Leo because he needed a male to mate with this females. It took us 6 months and just about $4,000 in legal fees to get Leo back. I know we could have just left him there and bought like 4 birds for that price, but that was not the point. We did not want to leave Leo there. The cages were unkept, dirty, out in the open with no covers over them. After finally winning the lawsuit to get him back, my mother went and picked him up. As soon as Leo saw my father, the first word he said was my fathers name. He remembered him.

Leo stayed with my mother for about a month while I arranged vacation to go get him in May. I brought him home, and from May to September things were beautiful. He can't stand not being in the same room as me when I'm home. I would get home from work, and open his cage, and he would come climbing out and step right up onto my hand, and I would take him outside (wings were clipped right before I picked him up from mom) and we would walk around the yard. He would stand on my hand making noises, while we would go look at the garden. Soon as we turned around from the garden, he would hold my finger and start flapping his wings like he was flying as I walked him back to the house. He would do the same thing in the house as I walked him from the living room where his house is, to my bedroom where he has a jungle perch. At 7pm he would start making noises and start pacing across the top bar, until I picked him up and took him to his house. Then he woudl climb inside and go up onto one of the perches and go to sleep.

During the first weekend of September, my girlfriend who lives away from me flew in and stayed with me for 5 days. Leo seemed to take to her very quick. He always wanted to be in the same room as her, and he would whistle to her and respond to her whistling back. Something he never did for me. No matter how much I talked to him. About 2 days after she left, something snapped in him. Every time I went near him, he raises his feathers, and bites if I try to pick him up. He will step up onto my hand, then once on it, he digs his beak into my thumb. Sometimes he wont' even raise his feathers, and he'll step up, then soon as you move, he digs in biting hard and drawing blood. Today he stepped up when I asked him if he wanted to go to the kitchen (which he bobs his head in a yes fashion as if saying yes) and after he stepepd up, he tore a chunk of skin of my thumbs knuckle almost down to the bone. I currently have about 24 cuts and slices (one he did was nearly 3/4 of an inch long across my thumb) on my thumb. I'm starting to get afraid to pick him up. But if you leave him in his cage and go to another room, he will spend 6-8 hours talking and making sounds for me to come get him.

I'm not sure what there is to do with him. I don't understand why he snapped like he did, or how to correct it. I did make the mistake of yelling at him a couple times after receiving his bites daily for almost a month and a half. But I've tried doing step ups and downs and if he doesn't bite giving him praise and a reward.. It seems it's only good for that session. After that he's back to being extremely aggressive. Up until he started becoming aggressive I never once yelled at him. I talked to him all the time and sang songs to him..

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

WOW, that is quite a story. While I am not an expert in behavioral issues, well I’m no expert in anything J I would say Leo is probably pissed people keep coming in and out of his life. You stated he was with two other people/families prior to going to your Mother for awhile then he went to the breeder where who knows what happened to him there, then he came back to your Mother, then he went to you. Then your girlfriend comes to visit and he gets attached to her then she leaves, if it were me and people just kept coming and going I probably would have a chip on my shoulder too. I think the solution to your problem is time and patience so Leo can see that you’re in it for the long haul. Greys are known to be quite timid and take time to adapt to their environment. A change in furniture arrangement or relocation of their cage or changing their toys can send them over the edge. It can take weeks or month to recover from the "trauma" of a change in their environment.

Our forum has a great behavioral expert (A.D.) who will most likely be of more assistance on how to correct your problem, but I’d say the cause is obvious.

Welcome to the forums by the way, you came to the right place for help.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Wuvz, I hope it's not overconfidence.

Leo has been through a lot, and it is quite refreshing to have someone looking for advice on a behavioral issue to be able to describe the whole story and history in such detail. It is often details one would never expect that affect present behavior.

However, in this case, I doubt that any of the turmoil prior to bonding with your girlfriend is involved. In fact it is possible that his bonding with her and the timing of her leaving is coincidental rather than causal - possible, but not likely.

First, without having to delve too much into your business do you know if that girlfriend will be returning? If so his behavior when she returns would be a very informative test to determine the best way to deal with the problem.

Second, could you describe your step-up training sessions in some detail? You say it 'works' for that training session, but then he goes back to biting later. As frustrating as I am sure this whole thing is (I've been in a fairly similar spot) it is very promising that he will behave well even if for short periods during training. It is far easier to build on small successes than it is to start completely from scratch. But how to build will really depend on what actually happens in training.

Specifically, does Leo behave well as soon as you come over to do some training, or does he bite at first then calm down after many repetitions? Anything you can tell me about what you do in the step up training, how he reacts, or any other details about those sessions would be helpful.

Also realize that whatever the cause I think a significant portion, if not a majority, or all parrot owners have gone through a phase like this with their feathered companions. The bites are extremely painful, but not nearly as painful as the feeling of helplessness in loosing your relationship with your buddy, nor the thoughts we have each had about whether or not we can keep it up and continue to provide a home for them. But, in every such case the problem DID clear up in time and the relationship between human and parrot DID rebuild to a new strength. You will get your old Leo back.

She is supposed to come back in December for 10 days and she is bringing her kids with her. She lives in Canada and I live in CT, so we dont' get to see each other much. The plan is for her to move in the middle of Febuary. I am most fearful of the kids reaching to him and him biting them. Even if they are told to stay away from him, you know kids...

My step-up training sessions are short, so as not to get him angry. If i can get him to steup up without biting, I tell him he's such a good boy, and let him step-down, telling him to, and give him a sunflower seed. I'll only do this for a min or so, because after that, he starts to show that he no longer wants to be doing that. He will become hesitant to step-up, and he will start to drop the seeds I give him. This is when I stop, figuring any further will force him to become aggressive. So I let him stay on his gymset which is about 5 feet from my computer desk, and he'll turn away from me and pick a foot up and go to sleep. He really does not play with any toys. Never has. He will tear up phone book pages, and the "Jellyfish" toy from bird.com that is made with banana leaves. he loves those. So even after getting treats and praise for stepping up nicely, I can wait like 10 min, and ask him if he wants to go to the kitchen with me, he will bob his head in a yes fashion, so I walk over and say " ok step up". Sometimes he looks normal with no body languange, then steps up an sits there for a sec, ans as soon as I start to turn, he reaches down and grabs any soft flesh eh can feel and digs in. Sometimes when I ask him if he wants to come with me and he bobs his head, he raises his feathers while he does it, and then if I put my hand down, he'll grab my finger, step onto it, then rip into me. Just today he took a section of skin about 1/4" x 1/16" on the top of my thumb's first knuckle and riped it down to nearly the bone. I held my voice, and quickly walked down the hall and put him in his cage. Soon as I left the room, he started talking and making noise because I was not in teh same room as him.

You really can't predict his moods or if he's gonna bite. Sometimes with the feathers up, he won't bite when he steps up.. other times he does.If he's on his cage door while I'm tryin to change out the papers on the bottom of it, sometimes he'll lunge and me and hit me with the point of his beak. Other times he just watches me.

The only consistent behaviors he has is if I leave the room, even to go to teh bathroom where he can still see me, he makes noise like I'm not in the room with him. The other is if he is on his gymset in the morning, and he see's me getting dressed for work, after he see's me put my shoes on, he starts pacing back and forth across the top bar with his wings out a bit, acting very anxious. When he does this, he will step up with his wings flapping, and flap them all the way down the hall till I put him in his house. He has never bit me in the morning when he's like that.

I'm afraid to start step-up training anymore, because it's nearly impossible to find a time he wont' bite from the start, and when he bites, if he gets the whole thumb, he'll quickly reposition his beak to find soft flesh, then he bites into it, trying to tear the skin. As of today, I have replaced my hand with an old perch for him to step up onto so I can move him around the house.

One thing I do see him do alot, especially if he's on his house, he crouches very low, with his wings held out a bit, like about 1/3 opened, and paces around then looks at me. I have no clue what he's trying to tell me. But if I try to get him to step up, sometimes he does without a problem, and sometimes he steps up, then bites down. I just can't predict his nature.

I've read conflicting suggestions about leaving them in their cages if they want to bite. I know he prob never got out of a cage when he was with the breeder for 6 months, but I can't do that. It's not in my nature to make him stay a caged bird. I would rather find a way to get him to stop biting, but I can't seem to figure out what made him start.. especially since he was wonderful for 4 months with not even a nip, then overnight (litterally) he turned into a massive biter.

Hi,everybody!I just want you to know this forum is great!

I try to take him to whatever room I go to. Mainly when i'm on the computer he's in my bedroom on his gym set, and He says nearly nothing. He will chew on his phonebook or eat, then climb back up and face away from me and nap. I would like him to do more, but other than chewing on some stuff, he doesn't play with toys really. I dont' think he grew up with them, or knows what they are there for.

If I leave him in another room and he talks and makes noises, I always try to respond to him. So that he knows I can hear him. Tryin to teach him to say goodnight next.

But for now, stepping up on a stick seems to be working.. he doesn't move down teh stick to bite me, and he'll try to fly down the hallway while perched on the stick.. I still don't know if I want to try to use my hand.. he still has a tendancy to lift his feathers, but not as much in the last week, since i've been home every day taking a class for work.

Maybe I'll see if I can do more step up and downs, with bandaids on my thumb so he can't bite into it.. but the first finger and knucles would still be unprotected..

I've been away from the computer a bit... but I have an odd suggestion:

Have him step up on your forearm instead of your hand.

Have you ever tried this?

Hands are very unpredictable and scary for birds. Even my conure wont step up on fingers, but arms he is perfectly happy with.

I could try that.

Starting yesterday, Leo has been very out of sorts. He has been very willing to just sit in the upper perch of his house. He has been wanting to fly more on my hand or perch. Every time I let him fly using the perch, he lets go and flys about 4-5 feet before gently landing.

I have found 4 smaller feathers (3 head size adn one chest size) in the last day. This is prob the total I've found in the last 5 months (besides the piles of down feather). He has been itching his head more the last 3-4 days. So I'm guessing he's molting.

I weighed him today and he's down to 15oz, when he was always 16oz before. I'm going to watch him. It's not him to be so content to sit in his house, and he is not eating as much as he was before. The seeds he goes crazy for, he eats a little, then goes back to a perch. His droppings look normal, and he doesn't have a runny nose. But he has stopped being as aggressive the last couple days too. He still fluffs the feathers once in a while, but hasn't bitten when I pick him up off the floor after he lands.

Molting is an odd time for a bird. There behavior does usually change - but often for the worse. If he's calm and mellow then consider yourself lucky. A one ounce change is nothing to worry about - if he continues to loose weight then perhaps a check up at a vet wouldn't be a bad idea but for now it doesn't sound like a problem.

If he is molting be sure he's getting plenty of calcium. Calcium is always important for greys, and is more so during a molt. Some crushed up hard boiled eggs with the shell is a good nutrient dense calcium source.

Give him regular baths: either let him bathe himself in a bowl of room-temp water if he will or spritz him with a misting spray bottle. This helps with the new feathers which will be coming in.

You said he goes crazy for his seeds. Are these his primary diet, or is he on a pelleted food? Seeds can be great as a treat, but they are not very nutritious and should not make up the main part of a parrots diet. A good pelleted food is a good base for a diet, then add fresh fruits and veggies. Sprouted seeds and legumes are great.

I must put my little bit of grey knowledge to work here. You describe your bird crouching with wings spred out a bit. That is a position my grey will take if she is afraid of something new or changed in the environment. Currently she is afriad of the snuggle sack I purchased for her. So it will be a gentle exposure until she is used to it. Is there anything near your grey that would frighten him? Good luck too.

Hi, am a junior junior in caring for parrots but Auggie's Dad suggested the arm tactic and I can tell you now I had the same problem - exactly the same and it worked, in no time at all. How about playing a radio in the room with him - softly. It might "keep" him company and he wont feel alone when your around the house - not sure if that is the right thing to do but just a suggestion.

The seeds are not his primary base. His primary is a mix of 4 Zupreem varieties. He gets the seeds after he's had supper, which is usually a small amount of what I'm eating, and then pellets.

Breakfast is usually what I'm having. He loves pancakes, and gets about a quarter sized amount of pancake or waffles, or some dry ceareal.

Ecclipse said:

Hi, am a junior junior in caring for parrots but Auggie's Dad suggested the arm tactic and I can tell you now I had the same problem - exactly the same and it worked, in no time at all. How about playing a radio in the room with him - softly. It might "keep" him company and he wont feel alone when your around the house - not sure if that is the right thing to do but just a suggestion.

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When I go to work I leave a radio on for him. When I tried the arm trick, he didn't like it. I think he feels insecure on it, cause he can't grip it very well, and he flies off it to the ground. Once on the ground, he'll step up very nicely without biting, because the floor is not someplace he's used to, so he'll get up so that he's in more familiar area on my hand.

Spiritbird said:

I must put my little bit of grey knowledge to work here. You describe your bird crouching with wings spred out a bit. That is a position my grey will take if she is afraid of something new or changed in the environment. Currently she is afriad of the snuggle sack I purchased for her. So it will be a gentle exposure until she is used to it. Is there anything near your grey that would frighten him? Good luck too.

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I think it's him tryin to tell me he wants to fly. Nearly every time he's like that, he'll step up and fly with me up and down the hallway. I've been using the perch to initially pick him up, but once on the perchy, he'll step up onto my hand while the flaps his wings like he's flying.

Hi, sorry I couldnt suggest something that would maybe work, am rooting for you and Leo and hope that you have a breakthrough real soon. Im sure that you will find a method that works. Good luck!

Sounds like hes on a great diet. Sorry to hear the arm was a no-go. Every parrot is an individual, but it sounds like you're making good progress none-the-less.

Just wanted to give a quick update on Leo.. Starting Friday and going through Sunday, He lost about 10 feathers. 4 little head ones, 3 chest or back sized, 2 of the wing coverlet ones, and one flight feather. Ever since then, he's really been back to his normal self. He has been stepping up without biting and flying around on my hand again. He has also started to stay in his house without needing to be near me. In the mornings he'll usually fly up and down the hallway with me once or twice, then I put him on his door. If I go over to him, and he doesn't want to be interacted with, he'll climb back into his house before I get to him, then climb back out when I walk away, but no longer lifting his feathers and getting an attitude.

He's willing to stay in his house when he wants to when I'm in another room, and he'll just nap, or sometime make some noises. At night when it's his bedtime, and he's in my bedroom on his gymset, when I go to put him back in his house, sometimes I may get a little feather fluff, but I tell him to put his feathers down and tell him "step up, it's night night time" and he's so far stepped up without a bite. I've seen it in his eyes where I swear he's debating if he wants to bite or not, but I usually say "ok, it's time to fly to your house" and move my hand up and down lightly and he'll start flapping his wings and we go out to his house and I put him inside, and tell him he's such a good boy, then I keep telling him it's night night time and put his cover over his house. Before I put the front of the cover down, he's usually up on his purple sand perch, and I ask for a kiss and he'll stick his beak between the bars to give me a kiss.

It's nice to have him back. I still am wary about watching his body language to let me know how he's feeling, but I think he's getting used to the fact that I'm still here, and he's not going anywhere. Plus maybe he had a few months of Pre Molting Syndrome. (my mother laughed when I told her that one)