Wings clipped or no?

So as most of you know, I am waiting for my boy capn jack to be weaned completely to take him home. So today I get an update and find out his wings were clipped yet when I was down there visiting him and said no wings clipped because he mentioned he was trying to fly. Now I find out from the wife that his wings are clipped. Is it better to have them clipped? I can't help but feel it's natural and helps combat being a fat bird.

Is it a bad thing to have wings clipped I guess is what I'm trying to find out.

That is a touchy subject here! Many people are opposed to it while others are for it.
I personally have Amy clipped twice a year..I let them grow in in the winter months.
She is clipped coz she goes a lot of places with me in the nice weather..people say "well put her in a harness" I have been thinking that route..but I have had Amy nearly 3o years now and there was only ONE season she wasn't clipped. ( I had heart surgery and wasn't up to going places at the time)
She doesn't know how to fly really..I guess she didn't have a chance to fledge properly when I got her at 4 months old..that was my fault for not knowing enough about big birds as pets at that time.
When I took little Beebers home at 4 months,he still had his baby clothes on,so I let him molt,get his adult clothes on,and learn to flapflapflap.
He got pretty good at it..but I had the doc give him a light clip a few weeks back coz it was hard catching the rascal to give him his meds for his infection he had.
I'll let them grow back in,he doesn't/wont be going outside anyway.


Jim

With Babies, I am a believer in allowing the chick to fully fledge prior to addressing whether of not to clip the wings. Two Reasons:

- The full development of their Heart and Air Sacks
- At that young age they are still light and do not have a fear of flying

Once they have a month or so on their wings, then make the choice based on what your life will support!

VERY IMPORTANT: Do Not Let Any One (including a Breeder) Clip The Wings Of Your Amazon! Only allow a Certified Avian Vet, a Avian Qualified Vet or a Certified Avian Tech cut your Amazon's Wing Feathers!

The nightmares of screw-ups and over clips are beyond belief!

SailBoat said:

With Babies, I am a believer in allowing the chick to fully fledge prior to addressing whether of not to clip the wings. Two Reasons:

- The full development of their Heart and Air Sacks
- At that young age they are still light and do not have a fear of flying

Once they have a month or so on their wings, then make the choice based on what your life will support!

VERY IMPORTANT: Do Not Let Any One (including a Breeder) Clip The Wings Of Your Amazon! Only allow a Certified Avian Vet, a Avian Qualified Vet or a Certified Avian Tech cut your Amazon's Wing Feathers!

The nightmares of screw-ups and over clips are beyond belief!

Click to expand...

As 'Boats stated! ONLY A CAV or certified equivalent! I mnade the mistake ONCE..Amy and I are regular visitors at the local pet shop...for years we.ve been going there. There is a young lady who works the pet department and also has her own birds for ten years now..I THOUGHT she knew what she was doing! Poor Amy was squirming and screeching while the "choppers" "assistant" tried to handle/restrain the poor bird,as I helplessly sat by in horror watching/listening to it all!
They got ONE arm done and I said STOP IT!! ENOUGH!!! YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THESE CREATURES AND YOU ARE BUTCHERING HER!!

People stopped shopping and came to the pet area to see what was going on!! I was SOOOOOO p.o.!!!
I told them never again will you touch her!
It was MY fault!! The pet store is minutes from my house,and because I have been a regular customer for so long,they did it for "free"...free my a** after seeing what Amy went through! I now gladly travel the twenty minutes to her CAV and pay the twenty bucks for arms and nails..plus she gets a visual "once over" by the doc..sure I can't just walk in with her,need an appointment..but I learned my lesson!



Jim

Good input above!
And good for you for researching.

SailBoat said:

With Babies, I am a believer in allowing the chick to fully fledge prior to addressing whether of not to clip the wings. Two Reasons:

- The full development of their Heart and Air Sacks
- At that young age they are still light and do not have a fear of flying

Once they have a month or so on their wings, then make the choice based on what your life will support!

VERY IMPORTANT: Do Not Let Any One (including a Breeder) Clip The Wings Of Your Amazon! Only allow a Certified Avian Vet, a Avian Qualified Vet or a Certified Avian Tech cut your Amazon's Wing Feathers!

The nightmares of screw-ups and over clips are beyond belief!

Click to expand...

Agree completely

TWO large birds have been frightened into flying to their deaths at a Utah zoo. They brushed it off as a devastating fluke. I say, fluke me once, shame on you. Fluke me twice, please stop having open-air bird shows.

Hogle

Wow. I'd have been furious in your shoes! They clipped your boy after you said no to clipping?!? Unacceptable!

As for your question, I believe in keeping my birds flighted. It makes an undeniable difference in terms of overall health and fitness. Of course, in order to safely allow for the flighted lifestyle, the people of the household had to undergo at least as much training as the birds. Our mindset ("our" being me, my wife, my two boys ages 9 & 6, and my mother and brother who are temporarily staying with us) had to be adjusted to account for the safety of flighted birds. It is now second nature to confirm the location of each bird before opening any of the doors to the outside, bathroom doors are never left open, toilet lids are never closed, the birds are always in their cages when the stove top is in use, and ceiling fans are rarely ever used. (And on the occasions they are, the birds are securely locked away, first.)

It's a lot of work initially, but so worth it in my opinion. There's just nothing like seeing the joy Jolly gets out of flying around the house at top speed and performing new maneuvers just for the fun of it. I wish Maya would also share in that joy, but like your bird she was clipped before she could fully fledge. Now, even though she is fully flighted, she rarely ever takes flight. So I have to work a lot harder to make sure she gets a good workout.

As SailBoat mentioned, if someone was going to opt for clipping, though, it should at least wait until after the bird has fully fledged. There is just far too much evidence that clipping before fledging causes developmental delays, both physical and psychological. No matter which side of the clipping/flighted choice a person falls on, I think that is one area where we should all agree.

Anansi said:

Wow. I'd have been furious in your shoes! They clipped your boy after you said no to clipping?!? Unacceptable!

As for your question, I believe in keeping my birds flighted. It makes an undeniable difference in terms of overall health and fitness. Of course, in order to safely allow for the flighted lifestyle, the people of the household had to undergo at least as much training as the birds. Our mindset ("our" being me, my wife, my two boys ages 9 & 6, and my mother and brother who are temporarily staying with us) had to be adjusted to account for the safety of flighted birds. It is now second nature to confirm the location of each bird before opening any of the doors to the outside, bathroom doors are never left open, toilet lids are never closed, the birds are always in their cages when the stove top is in use, and ceiling fans are rarely ever used. (And on the occasions they are, the birds are securely locked away, first.)

It's a lot of work initially, but so worth it in my opinion. There's just nothing like seeing the joy Jolly gets out of flying around the house at top speed and performing new maneuvers just for the fun of it. I wish Maya would also share in that joy, but like your bird she was clipped before she could fully fledge. Now, even though she is fully flighted, she rarely ever takes flight. So I have to work a lot harder to make sure she gets a good workout.

As SailBoat mentioned, if someone was going to opt for clipping, though, it should at least wait until after the bird has fully fledged. There is just far too much evidence that clipping before fledging causes developmental delays, both physical and psychological. No matter which side of the clipping/flighted choice a person falls on, I think that is one area where we should all agree.

Click to expand...

You mean toilet lids are ALWAYS closed, I bet. I've heard of birds flying into toilet bowls and drowning...they can't climb up the smooth sides and can't fly when wet.

We should have a check list of parrot safety items like that. I'll put it on Wikibeaks, too. Does anyone already have something like that in progress, something that can be printed out?

Kentuckienne said:

Anansi said:

Wow. I'd have been furious in your shoes! They clipped your boy after you said no to clipping?!? Unacceptable!

As for your question, I believe in keeping my birds flighted. It makes an undeniable difference in terms of overall health and fitness. Of course, in order to safely allow for the flighted lifestyle, the people of the household had to undergo at least as much training as the birds. Our mindset ("our" being me, my wife, my two boys ages 9 & 6, and my mother and brother who are temporarily staying with us) had to be adjusted to account for the safety of flighted birds. It is now second nature to confirm the location of each bird before opening any of the doors to the outside, bathroom doors are never left open, toilet lids are never closed, the birds are always in their cages when the stove top is in use, and ceiling fans are rarely ever used. (And on the occasions they are, the birds are securely locked away, first.)

It's a lot of work initially, but so worth it in my opinion. There's just nothing like seeing the joy Jolly gets out of flying around the house at top speed and performing new maneuvers just for the fun of it. I wish Maya would also share in that joy, but like your bird she was clipped before she could fully fledge. Now, even though she is fully flighted, she rarely ever takes flight. So I have to work a lot harder to make sure she gets a good workout.

As SailBoat mentioned, if someone was going to opt for clipping, though, it should at least wait until after the bird has fully fledged. There is just far too much evidence that clipping before fledging causes developmental delays, both physical and psychological. No matter which side of the clipping/flighted choice a person falls on, I think that is one area where we should all agree.

Click to expand...

You mean toilet lids are ALWAYS closed, I bet. I've heard of birds flying into toilet bowls and drowning...they can't climb up the smooth sides and can't fly when wet.

We should have a check list of parrot safety items like that. I'll put it on Wikibeaks, too. Does anyone already have something like that in progress, something that can be printed out?

Click to expand...

Hahahahahaha! Thank you soooooo much, Kentuckienne! Yes, I did indeed mean always closed. Whew! Good catch.

Yes, there is already a safety checklist that was composed by our own Allee not too long ago. Here is the link: http://www.parrotforums.com/new-mem...friendly-warnings-keep-your-parrots-safe.html

Prompted by the subject of this very post, I've also added the open toilet danger to the thread. Thanks again!

I've been on both sides. Rio my first conure was fully flighted and loved it. He never crashed into anything, was confident and would fly to me on command so I would never have clipped him.

The second I had Ozzy was very skittish and not a confident flyer, I was going to book him an appointment to get clipped to help him learn things aren't scary but he got spooked and flew into a wall and died.

Ups and downs for both really. I would always say leave flighted until given a reason to clip. Really it's a case of preference and whatever is going to be safer for the bird. Just remember even if clipped (properly) if they get outside they can get lift from even a slight breeze and easily fly off so always practice keeping doors and windows closed when they are out

Hey everyone! So I didn't get that particular YNA, I began asking questions and they didn't like it so I got my money back. I went to my initial Breeder and am picking up my new bird (who I met today), next weekend. He's beautiful, unclipped and hand feeding once a day and will wean him myself the rest of the way!

FYI: Please have them show you and than you complete a feeding of your YNA. This is just in case training - should he need to be feed a formula in the first few weeks after he comes home with you. Ask for some of what they had been feeding, also write down the name and source. Also the devise they are using to feed.

You just have no way of knowing, so why not be prepared!

I've been on both sides. I'm still on both sides. I suppose it depends upon the situation. Right now I'm allowing Kizzy to fledge, but at some point I might decide she should be grounded. Having a flighted bird means more training. I need to find Kizzy's treat food before I can proceed further. In the meantime, I'm trying to keep her as safe as possible. She's so much lighter and more aerodynamic than Gabby that I'm thinking she might do better if I use the aviator harness to train her to fly well and recall, even from heights. Even clipped, a stiff breeze might send her airborne. I will always use the Aviator Harness, but accidents happen. I'd rather have a chance of retrieving her.

When Gabby turned twenty, I tried to get him to fly. I also tried to introduce him to a harness. I did all the wrong things. Even if I'd done all the right things, I'm sure he would have been very resistant to a harness. I'm not saying it's impossible to teach an older bird, but it is difficult. I understand why Amy's person is reluctant.

As time passes, it becomes harder and harder to find someone in this area who can competently clip a bird's wings. During the final years of Gabby's life, he had to go unclipped and therefore miss out on a lot of fun things. He could still visit my mother and enjoy rides in the car, but I never found anyone I really trusted to clip him. Poor fellow.

As a pet store employee, I did gain lots of experience clipping wings. I never hurt a bird; however, back then I always used the same clip. Now, I realize the clip should vary from bird to bird depending on their weight, build, temperament and wing colors. I think if I were able to clone myself, I could do a good job on Kizzy.

There is a new avian vet in the area. She treated Gabby until we decided he needed to be seen by Dr. Speer. If Kizzy needs to be clipped, I guess I'll get her an appointment to see this local vet. When she saw how I quickly and easily restrained Gabby, she said, "I'd hire you on the spot." I know she could use my help, but right now I associate her with Gabby's death, so I'm not ready to break the ice just yet.

I hope all goes well until Kizzy has completed fledging and weaning. At that point, I will reassess her needs.

Kentuckienne said:

Anansi said:

Wow. I'd have been furious in your shoes! They clipped your boy after you said no to clipping?!? Unacceptable!

As for your question, I believe in keeping my birds flighted. It makes an undeniable difference in terms of overall health and fitness. Of course, in order to safely allow for the flighted lifestyle, the people of the household had to undergo at least as much training as the birds. Our mindset ("our" being me, my wife, my two boys ages 9 & 6, and my mother and brother who are temporarily staying with us) had to be adjusted to account for the safety of flighted birds. It is now second nature to confirm the location of each bird before opening any of the doors to the outside, bathroom doors are never left open, toilet lids are never closed, the birds are always in their cages when the stove top is in use, and ceiling fans are rarely ever used. (And on the occasions they are, the birds are securely locked away, first.)

It's a lot of work initially, but so worth it in my opinion. There's just nothing like seeing the joy Jolly gets out of flying around the house at top speed and performing new maneuvers just for the fun of it. I wish Maya would also share in that joy, but like your bird she was clipped before she could fully fledge. Now, even though she is fully flighted, she rarely ever takes flight. So I have to work a lot harder to make sure she gets a good workout.

As SailBoat mentioned, if someone was going to opt for clipping, though, it should at least wait until after the bird has fully fledged. There is just far too much evidence that clipping before fledging causes developmental delays, both physical and psychological. No matter which side of the clipping/flighted choice a person falls on, I think that is one area where we should all agree.

Click to expand...

You mean toilet lids are ALWAYS closed, I bet. I've heard of birds flying into toilet bowls and drowning...they can't climb up the smooth sides and can't fly when wet.

We should have a check list of parrot safety items like that. I'll put it on Wikibeaks, too. Does anyone already have something like that in progress, something that can be printed out?

Click to expand...

I would like a safety checklist that would be awesome

jbready said:

I would like a safety checklist that would be awesome

Click to expand...

http://www.parrotforums.com/new-mem...friendly-warnings-keep-your-parrots-safe.html

Anansi said:

jbready said:

I would like a safety checklist that would be awesome

Click to expand...

http://www.parrotforums.com/new-mem...friendly-warnings-keep-your-parrots-safe.html

Click to expand...

Thanks Anansi! I appreciate it!

Anansi said:

As for your question, I believe in keeping my birds flighted. It makes an undeniable difference in terms of overall health and fitness. Of course, in order to safely allow for the flighted lifestyle, the people of the household had to undergo at least as much training as the birds. Our mindset ("our" being me, my wife, my two boys ages 9 & 6, and my mother and brother who are temporarily staying with us) had to be adjusted to account for the safety of flighted birds. It is now second nature to confirm the location of each bird before opening any of the doors to the outside, bathroom doors are never left open, toilet lids are never closed, the birds are always in their cages when the stove top is in use, and ceiling fans are rarely ever used. (And on the occasions they are, the birds are securely locked away, first.)

It's a lot of work initially, but so worth it in my opinion. There's just nothing like seeing the joy Jolly gets out of flying around the house at top speed and performing new maneuvers just for the fun of it. I wish Maya would also share in that joy, but like your bird she was clipped before she could fully fledge. Now, even though she is fully flighted, she rarely ever takes flight. So I have to work a lot harder to make sure she gets a good workout.

As SailBoat mentioned, if someone was going to opt for clipping, though, it should at least wait until after the bird has fully fledged. There is just far too much evidence that clipping before fledging causes developmental delays, both physical and psychological. No matter which side of the clipping/flighted choice a person falls on, I think that is one area where we should all agree.

Click to expand...

Kizzy is my first unclipped bird. She's in the middle of fledging and the joy she experiences is obvious. I'm pretty sure she's smarter than my DYH was (no offense, Gabby) and the fact she's flighted may be part of the reason why. She's developing as she would in the wild. She understands so much and she just turned eleven weeks old today. She still gets an evening hand-feeding to help her through the night.

That said, having a flighted bird is definitely more work than having a clipped bird, at least during fledging. I know nothing of the stages beyond. As Anansi pointed out (by the way, I considered both "Anansi" and "Maya" as names for Kizzy), my mother and I (the primary people who live at or frequently visit my home) have to learn new safety protocols. Kizzy still flies up to the ceiling fan. During the time I've lived here, I've only turned it on a handful of times, but it's still not a suitable landing site. I've finally decided I must scare her away from it. I detest doing so, but I can't let the habit become more ingrained than it already is.

As a flying toddler, Kizzy keeps me hopping. I work on training from the time we wake up until we go to sleep, usually in short sessions. In the wild, she'd be learning a ton of stuff, too. I keep it as fun as possible and we take time out to play. She's so fun to wrestle with. God, I love baby Amazons! Sometimes I wish they'd stay in the baby stage, like dogs do.

Kizzy is so full of life. After a flight, she sometimes play growls from sheer joy and "attacks" her wings. XD XD XD She's especially happy when my mother is here and she can show off what she has learned.

I'm sorry the OP's bird was clipped without permission. That's inexcusable. Sadly, nothing can be done. I've seen documentaries about illegally-caught wild parrots whose clipped wings have been repaired by the few people in the world who possess the skill and resources needed to use donor feathers to repair wings...tails, too. Just in case something happens to the donor feathers, the birds are kept in aviaries until their own feathers grow back. Restoring flight keeps them fit so they are ready for release when that day comes. Wouldn't it be cool if this skill (and donated feathers) were a part of CAV training? If that day ever comes, it will be far away. Most US vets recommend clipping. I understand why. Some birds must be clipped for their own good; others should remain flighted. At this point, I'm hoping I don't have to ground Kizzy.

As for the illegally captured parrots...I wonder if I could donate some of Gabby's old flights? There must be a way to disinfect moulted feathers just in case...perhaps a day in a hot car? It would be a good way to honor his memory. I doubt they'd take donor feathers without knowing the source, but maybe it's something I could look into.

OK, it's time for bed. Sometimes I type WAY too much.

Ladyhawk said:

Kizzy is my first unclipped bird. She's in the middle of fledging and the joy she experiences is obvious. I'm pretty sure she's smarter than my DYH was (no offense, Gabby) and the fact she's flighted may be part of the reason why. She's developing as she would in the wild. She understands so much and she just turned eleven weeks old today. She still gets an evening hand-feeding to help her through the night.

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to seeing how you and Kizzy come to enjoy the flighted experience as time goes on and she becomes more adept. Make sure to continue working hard on her recall training and get her to the point where she responds instantly. I think you'll find that the hard work has paid off. But please keep us updated either way.

Ladyhawk said:

That said, having a flighted bird is definitely more work than having a clipped bird, at least during fledging. I know nothing of the stages beyond. As Anansi pointed out (by the way, I considered both "Anansi" and "Maya" as names for Kizzy), my mother and I (the primary people who live at or frequently visit my home) have to learn new safety protocols. Kizzy still flies up to the ceiling fan. During the time I've lived here, I've only turned it on a handful of times, but it's still not a suitable landing site. I've finally decided I must scare her away from it. I detest doing so, but I can't let the habit become more ingrained than it already is.

As a flying toddler, Kizzy keeps me hopping. I work on training from the time we wake up until we go to sleep, usually in short sessions. In the wild, she'd be learning a ton of stuff, too. I keep it as fun as possible and we take time out to play.

Click to expand...

Oh, yes. A flighted bird is DEFINITELY more work than a clipped bird... initially. But that dynamic does shift once they are fully recall trained. Especially when it comes to potty training. Take Maya versus Jolly, for instance. Both LOVE being on me more than being anywhere else. (Well, mostly. When hungry, Jolly will pick a full bowl of food over me in a heartbeat. The little piggy. ) But with Jolly, there's never any worry about a fecal fail because he can fly off of me to his tree stand, drop it like it's hot, and be back to my shoulder in less time than it takes to tell.

For Maya, however, it's a different story. She'll hold to a point, but if I miss her subtle signals that she's ready to go? Yup. Green and white blessings down my shirt. Thing is, her signal has become more subtle because she doesn't want to be told to go to the perch. She'd comply, of course, but she would rather not go because whether or not she gets to come back is completely in my hands. Unlike with Jolly who simply says, more or less, "Be right back!" I'm working on getting Maya past that, of course, but even once I do there will still be the fact that I have to get up and go to wherever her tree stand is at least once every half hour. So in short, Jolly is the better companion for watching Game of Thrones. Maya is more likely to get to hang out on me while watching a show with commercial breaks, like Walking Dead. Lol!

Kizzy was almost an Anansi or Maya, eh? Nice! I like Kizzy, though. Not at all a common name.

Any chance of you putting up any videos of Kizzy's flight training sessions?