Irn or arn?

Lucidxdoom · Nov 7, 2018

Hi, I'm new here and just adopted (what I was told) is an Indian ring neck that was born in March. Ofc they had no record of the exact age but the bird looked a bit smaller than a full grown irn so I assumed them to not be lieing. However after reading a bit on this forum I didn't realize that arn existed and were so similar. Also this bird is an odd color, I've never seen a ring neck this color. The pictures she looks more white (they also said she wss a girl but who knows) but she's actually a very light blue. And I'm guessing her tail feathers are short either because she's young, a different species or was just not well cared for. Thanks! :whiteblue:

Lucidxdoom · Nov 7, 2018

Well I tried to upload a picture but I guess it didn't work...

Lucidxdoom · Nov 8, 2018

Ok well I managed to upload the pics to an album that should be public if anyone wants to look... They ate sideways for some reason though. :/

Sunnyclover · Nov 8, 2018

I looked at the pics and I believe this partot to be an IRN. Also..they could only know the sex if they dna tested as the ring on the boy irn and arn don't show up until they're a year or so old unless it's a girl whose over a year old. Then they could tell because she would not have developed a ring.

Rozalka · Nov 8, 2018

I agree they are an Indian ringneck and you can't tell the sex. IRNs have a lot of colour mutations. Your bird can be blue pastel cleartail but I can be wrong.

Lucidxdoom · Nov 8, 2018

Thanks!! They said she was DNA sexed but who knows really. I figured she was probably an irn because arn are pretty rare in the us I guess. I am hoping she is as young as they said. Anyways I'm excited to have a bird again she seems very sweet and tame but if she's a baby I'll be expecting some craziness in a few years lol

SilverSage · Nov 8, 2018

I can’t see your album from my phone but if the bird isn’t green, it isn’t an ARN. Mutation ARNs may be out there but they aren’t in the pet trade.

As far as the color you are describing it SOUNDS like a pallid blue.

“Pastel” is not the name of any mutation and is used in different parts of the world to mean different things, usually turquoise. Cleartails would have a clear tail and a lighter belly but wouldn’t appear to be a very pale body color. A pallid blue will have a light blue body with a white head and flight feathers. If your bird does not have a white head but has a pale blue body, she could be cinnamon or edged.

This is a picture of a breeding pair; the hen, Misty, is pallid blue and the male, Adolin, is pallid violet. The lighting was kind of weird so the colors appear darker than they usually do to look at. I have had people think that both are white birds from a distance.

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EllenD · Nov 9, 2018

It looks very much like a pallid blue to me as well. As for sex, it was already mentioned, unless you get a DNA test, you won't know for sure until the bird is between 1-2 years old, as the males can sometimes take up to 2 years-old for their rings to show-up...

ARN's aren't "rare", I think a lot of the time people do mistake them for an IRN though, or vice versa most of the time...All ARN's are green to the best of my knowledge though...I don't know a whole lot about the Ringnecks, but you have a beautiful, young IRN...

LeslieA · Nov 9, 2018

The following is based on MY experience and understanding.

A quick tell IRN or ARN is the beak. If it's orange-red, IRN; maroon, ARN. I've yet to see otherwise. Beaksize is a subjective tell. Large, IRN; small, ARN. A bird other than green is an IRN.

MY understanding is that not all male mutations have a ring. Is this true? Either way, the ring doesn't appear until sexual maturity. Although some disagree, a bluffing stage is apparent.

Age is most-often told by the eyes. Again, this is subjective! As the bird ages, the eyes get a larger yellow ring.

LeslieA · Nov 9, 2018

Apparently, "Pastel" as a description in place of "Pallid" is currently accepted in the non-breeder jargon. Recently, I saw a bird described as "pastel" blue and have heard/seen IRNs thus described.

Rozalka · Nov 9, 2018

SilverSage said:
I can’t see your album from my phone but if the bird isn’t green, it isn’t an ARN. Mutation ARNs may be out there but they aren’t in the pet trade.

As far as the color you are describing it SOUNDS like a pallid blue.

“Pastel” is not the name of any mutation and is used in different parts of the world to mean different things, usually turquoise. Cleartails would have a clear tail and a lighter belly but wouldn’t appear to be a very pale body color. A pallid blue will have a light blue body with a white head and flight feathers. If your bird does not have a white head but has a pale blue body, she could be cinnamon or edged.

This is a picture of a breeding pair; the hen, Misty, is pallid blue and the male, Adolin, is pallid violet. The lighting was kind of weird so the colors appear darker than they usually do to look at. I have had people think that both are white birds from a distance.

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"Pastel" is the name for parlutino mutation in some species. Here I see my mistake because parlutino Indian ringnecks are only pallid (I checked it).

SilverSage · Nov 9, 2018

Some mutations of IRNs have dark beaks, often those with structural mutations such as dark factor.

“Pastel” is used to mean many different things in different parts of the world and is therefore all but useless. I’ve seen it mean pallid, cinnamon, turquoise, and creamino (is that what you mean by “parlutino? A parblue ino aka turquoise ino aka creamino, that is a white bird with pale yellow brushed over it?)

The only IRN mutation that does not get a ring is albino. Albino is a combination of the Blue gene that removes all yellow, orange, red, and pink, and the lutino gene that removes all blue, grey, black, etc. as a result the pink, black, and white band has the pink and black parts both removed and you are left with a white band on a white bird.

Rings can take up to 3.5 years to develop though the average time is about 10-24 months.

Bluffing does not present in all by any means and is almost never present in co-parented, abundance weaned, fully fledged birds.

If the eye is all dark the bird is likely under one year old, but there is some flexibility in that.

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Lucidxdoom · Nov 9, 2018

Ahhh yes my bird looks almost white and very much like the ones posted above and under her wings near the tail is a slightly brighter blue. She has a white head with some blue/turquoise spots on the back. I think she is young, she seems small for an irn to me. The adults I've seen (and I had one a few years ago) were all a bit larger which also makes me think she's young. Thanks for the help!

Lucidxdoom · Nov 9, 2018

Also how do you post photos then I can get a picture of hee eyes. They said she was born in March.

Lucidxdoom · Nov 9, 2018

lucidxdoom-albums-lugia-picture20804-20181109-162156-1.jpg

Rozalka · Nov 10, 2018

SilverSage said:
Some mutations of IRNs have dark beaks, often those with structural mutations such as dark factor.

“Pastel” is used to mean many different things in different parts of the world and is therefore all but useless. I’ve seen it mean pallid, cinnamon, turquoise, and creamino (is that what you mean by “parlutino? A parblue ino aka turquoise ino aka creamino, that is a white bird with pale yellow brushed over it?)

Blue - blue, grey, black etc are removed in 100%
|_ Parblue - these colors aren't removed in 100%. In different species this mutation has different names eg turquoise, aqua... (in some species can be more than one name)
Lutino - other colors are removed in 100%
|_ Parlutino - these colors aren't all removed. This name generally isn't used. We call them eg. pallid, pastel... depending on what species and type of this mutation
I hadn't heard about naming "pastel" for other mutations before. I learnt this verson

SilverSage · Nov 10, 2018

Interesting. I have never heard the term parlutino. For a minute I thought you might mean pallidino (makes who have one pallid and one lutino gene).

Parlutino seems like a misnomer since pallid changes color PATTERN as well as shade.

It’s interesting to me the different words used in different places; what part of the world are you from?

You are correct obviously that there are multiple parblues. Everyone accepts the difference between emerald and turquoise for example, while people are still fighting over “aqua” and “sapphire” as to whether they are different expressions of turquoise or different genes altogether.

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Rozalka · Nov 10, 2018

I live in Poland (Europe). I've just googled "parlutino parrot mutation" and I found this term at only one site, which is an English verson of Polish site about QPs. I think you are right this is related to the place of the word.

SilverSage · Nov 10, 2018

That makes sense! What part of Poland are you from? I’ve planned to make a visit there since I was little and had a Polish foreign exchange student; my husband has been and says we will go together sometime.

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TiredOldMan · Nov 10, 2018

Just sign me up for the food!

Irn or arn?

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